Waiting on S3

[goduke21]

I just want s3 for the visualizer. I have 4 ccr that I don't feel like drawing in s2. My problem is that I attended the LOR dinner at the expo and Dan was asked when we were getting s3. He said that the beta testers would be getting it in a week. Keep in mind that was July 4th and the testers did not get it until mid august. He then said it would take 3-4 weeks after the testers got it that it would be released. I thought to myself that we could expect it by late aug at the latest according to Dan. So I have been waiting for it and still have not gotten a answer as to the release date.

[tsmith35]

As Killick said in Master and Commander, "Which it will be ready when it's ready!"

Software never works out like it's "supposed" to. There's always one more bug to squash, one more comment to add, one more tweak make. I'm sure Dan and company want S3 to come out of the gates at full speed and as bug-free as possible. If they released S3 before it was ready, they'd still have the same issues, but with a ton of upset customers to deal with. I'm sure it will be here eventually. Just my opinion, of course.

[Surfing4Dough]

I agree with a lot of what has been said here. I am hoping for S3 ASAP, but understand the reality of the situation and that "when it is released, it is released" and will deal with that as needed. However, it would be helpful/appreciated to have a little heads up on approximately when this might be (ie. how close are we?). For example, I think most of us thought assembled controllers would be available in August, and then September (only because that was what we were told), but now learn on the PDU page that it kinda appears that these are still "several weeks" away. That is completely fine and helpful and can now deal with that--at least we know. I am personally hoping for some similar update regarding S3 (and I am sure others hoping for the same for CCBs, etc.). I can be content with whatever the answer is, or however vague it might be, but at least it will help to plan. I know, I know...just assume it won't be here this season and proceed with S2 (and I am) but there are a few things I would rather not spend 2-3x longer doing in S2 that S3 will handle better and will wait if release is somewhat imminent. Similar to the controllers, only assumed it would be here by now based on previous Dan posts or expo reports and likewise an update on its status would be equally helpful/appreciated. I think the PDU page is an excellent customer service (PR) tool and was a wise business decision, and hope it will expand beyond just info on the controllers.

[iresq]

How about adding a few more beta "testers". LOL.

[thevikester]

My opinion/editorial since everyone seems to have one.

When I read through some of these subjects under the LOR S3 Suite, I am amazed at the amount of whining little children that particpate on this forum. OH yeah, I said it, WHINERS. You know who YOU are...I for one am just grateful that this whole concept exists, and the support that is so broadly given across this community. But some people just don't get it, and its sad. I have the utmost respect for Dan and his company. THese delays, whether it be product, or software, do you really think he is enjoying this one bit? I seriously doubt he even likes looking at the forum right now, waiting for the next crybaby to bash him or the company.
A little empathy and compassion goes a long ways, for the owner, for the testers, the developers, and fellow board members, who are thinking the same thing as I am writing, but don't want to cause a ruffle.

I will probably get Cheers and Jeers from this post, but honestly the jeers don't bother me because they will be from the whiners I referenced above.

Okay, I'm done...let me have it, good or bad :shock:

[wallleyes]

thevikester wrote:

My opinion/editorial since everyone seems to have one.

When I read through some of these subjects under the LOR S3 Suite, I am amazed at the amount of whining little children that particpate on this forum. OH yeah, I said it, WHINERS. You know who YOU are...I for one am just grateful that this whole concept exists, and the support that is so broadly given across this community. But some people just don't get it, and its sad. I have the utmost respect for Dan and his company. THese delays, whether it be product, or software, do you really think he is enjoying this one bit? I seriously doubt he even likes looking at the forum right now, waiting for the next crybaby to bash him or the company.
A little empathy and compassion goes a long ways, for the owner, for the testers, the developers, and fellow board members, who are thinking the same thing as I am writing, but don't want to cause a ruffle.

I will probably get Cheers and Jeers from this post, but honestly the jeers don't bother me because they will be from the whiners I referenced above.

Okay, I'm done...let me have it, good or bad :shock:

Its all good.Tis the season to be jolly

[CKSedg]

thevikester wrote:

My opinion/editorial since everyone seems to have one.

When I read through some of these subjects under the LOR S3 Suite, I am amazed at the amount of whining little children that particpate on this forum. OH yeah, I said it, WHINERS. You know who YOU are...I for one am just grateful that this whole concept exists, and the support that is so broadly given across this community. But some people just don't get it, and its sad. I have the utmost respect for Dan and his company. THese delays, whether it be product, or software, do you really think he is enjoying this one bit? I seriously doubt he even likes looking at the forum right now, waiting for the next crybaby to bash him or the company.
A little empathy and compassion goes a long ways, for the owner, for the testers, the developers, and fellow board members, who are thinking the same thing as I am writing, but don't want to cause a ruffle.

I will probably get Cheers and Jeers from this post, but honestly the jeers don't bother me because they will be from the whiners I referenced above.

Okay, I'm done...let me have it, good or bad :shock:

Yessirree, I agree -- 100%.

[thevikester]

I've highlighted my favorite parts of your post. BTW I'll bet Santa just added you to the "Good" list!

Jeff

Thanks J!

[mmaness]

Do you folks have any idea what software development is like? I’m a senior programmer/analyst at a large transportation company and I run into this all the time.



I get started on a project and at the beginning I get told that it needs to be ready by a certain date (yeah, right – keep dreaming!). After many fits and starts, etc, I eventually get something sorta working. Now I have to flesh it out with various features, etc, and get those more or less operational. I get so many suggestions for how it should function that I end up having to freeze the design (no more changes, please, folks, or I’ll never get it done!!!). I’m doing programming, alpha testing (testing it myself with maybe some help from other programmers), as well as working out the bugs that I find. Eventually I get to the end of what I’m working on and I let beta testers have their shot.



Beta testers always find loads of bugs. The reason is that I’m programming and testing for how I’m using the software. Beta testers expand the envelope and use it in ways that I never did or even planned on. Hence, tons more bugs. Plus beta testers always have loads of suggestions for new features. Some I’ll use, some I won’t, because the design is (in theory) frozen.



So here I am, merrily working out the bugs, when some simi-genius with a title behind his name dreams up a new function. Okay, so I have to ignore the design freeze, because this simi-genius has a large title behind his name and is way up on the food chain. If I want to continue eating and paying my mortgage, I incorporate his idea for a new, whiz-bang feature (in his mind, anyway). I have to stop fixing bugs that beta testers want while working on the new function that the simi-genius dreamed up. I get finished and release it to the beta testers, while I resume fixing bugs.



Eventually someone that has direct influence on the people that sign my paycheck wants a status update – i.e. when will it be done. At this point, any date is as good as any other, so I make one up. I mean, really … how can I know a date because beta testers are still finding bugs and I’m still chasing down bugs. There are bugs I don’t even know about, but yet I’m supposed to give a date when everything will be completed? Sheesh!



Also, remember that at the beginning of this thing, there was a drop dead date given and this date has been more or less promised as the date we’ll be going operational. That date might have long since past because the scope of the project just keeps growing and growing and growing with no end in sight.



By now, I have my boss, my boss’s boss, his boss, etc, up the corporate ladder all jumping up and down on my desk demanding to know a date when I’ll be done. At the same time, I keep having to make changes and/or add new features that have to be programmed, alpha tested, beta tested, etc.



Software, when it’s released, is never finished. It’s released at a ‘good enough’ level – i.e. we know there are a few things we need to work on, but they won’t impact the overall functionality of the software. Once you hit production release, users ALWAYS find additional bugs that alpha and beta testing never find. Also someone dreams up new functionality, so we’re back to programming, alpha and beta testing and production release. Wash, rinse, repeat.



I suspect that the S3 software is somewhere nearing the point where it can be released. It’ll have a few nagging issues plus hidden bugs that will only be found after it’s released. Be prepared for that. New features will be incorporated. On and on and on. It really never ends, it just trickles down to a low level.



It’s not unheard of to just fix the major bugs and drop the project because something more important comes up and we just abandon the project. Has anyone tried playing Sim City 4 lately? You’ll see what I mean.



I guess my point is that release dates are probably unknown until just before release. Dan can give you a date, but remember he’s way up on the food chain and has probably asked the programmers, who gave him a date to get rid of him. Programmers just don’t know a date until just before release .. we know most of the bugs and have a bug list, but really don’t know what’s involved in fixing the bugs until we work on it. So how can I tell someone how long a problem is going to take to fix until I actually take a look at it?



Just chill out a while. It’ll be ready when it’s ready. Believe me, programmers/developers don’t want to work all the time. We want to get the project down to the trickle level as fast as possible. That’s when the job becomes 7am to 5pm. We get to see family again, watch football, walk the dog, etc. But we do have pride in our work and don’t want to let junk get out the door.



Just cut the guys in the back room some slack. Many cans of Red Bull and Mt. Dew have been consumed and they’re as anxious as you are to get it released.

[taybrynn]

Great post ... as a software developer myself that last post is spot on. I also was involved in beta testing LSP 2 this year and can confirm this situation first hand. LOR S3 is probably no different, but I have faith they will work it all out.

[PaulXmas]

mmaness wrote:

Do you folks have any idea what software development is like? I’m a senior programmer/analyst at a large transportation company and I run into this all the time.

Are you done yet?

[paulanator]

As a person who has worked in Tech Support for years, the developers favorite line that we had to pass on was....

Two Weeks......

Was a long running joke in the company, and it is true across the board with software and hardware. The answer is always two weeks!

[seankovacs]

I'm not sure what's worse - the inquisitive or the "I'm the good guy" post.

LOR creates a forum specifically for S3...not even locked down to the "beta testers" and you expect people to not hoot and holler and question its release. It's an open invitation.

[Don]

seankovacs wrote:

I'm not sure what's worse - the inquisitive or the "I'm the good guy" post.

LOR creates a forum specifically for S3...not even locked down to the "beta testers" and you expect people to not hoot and holler and question its release. It's an open invitation.

There is a section of forums for the Beta testers. The beta version of the software is discussed there.

If I had to guess, I'd say the S3 forums were put there so people could ask questions about it. *shrug*

[jimswinder]

Don wrote:

If I had to guess, I'd say the S3 forums were put there so people could ask questions about it. *shrug*

kinda difficult to ask questions about a "phantom" product...

(though you can't see a cheek..that IS a tongue in the cheek)

[WayneKremer]

Actually, I think it would be a good idea to open up the beta forum as a "read only" for the non-beta users. That way, they can see the activity and determine for themselves if it is getting closer to release....

[Don]

jimswinder wrote:

kinda difficult to ask questions about a "phantom" product...

Really, Jim?

Odd, because by that definition the CCB's are a phantom product. Yet I seem to recall you asking many questions about them. (Didn't you go so far as to tear down part of your display in anticipation of their release?)

[jimswinder]

Don wrote:

(Didn't you go so far as to tear down part of your display in anticipation of their release?)

Yep..and those "phantom" CCB's will be the best part of my display!!!!

(tongue in OTHER cheek)....

[Surfing4Dough]

Don wrote:

seankovacs wrote:

I'm not sure what's worse - the inquisitive or the "I'm the good guy" post.

LOR creates a forum specifically for S3...not even locked down to the "beta testers" and you expect people to not hoot and holler and question its release. It's an open invitation.

There is a section of forums for the Beta testers. The beta version of the software is discussed there.

If I had to guess, I'd say the S3 forums were put there so people could ask questions about it. *shrug*

So I don't see what is wrong with somebody asking the question "When is S3 going to be released?" There is nothing negative about that, and in no way critical of Dan, LOR, beta testers, software developers, or members here. I don't understand why when that is asked it is perceived as "whining" or people get so defensive about it. That is what creates the tension. How one would respond to the answer to that question is what could be whining if they respond poorly. It won't bother me if the answer is 1 week or 1 year, or something vague in between. I think anybody involved here knows this is a fluid situation and things can change or be delayed, but that doesn't mean that Dan can't at least hint at what they are shooting for or forecasting (much like he is now doing with the controllers on the PDU, which seems to have quieted down the tension here about the availability of controllers). It has been quite a while since he has given any updates on this. And if the timeline is still pretty murky since there are still quite a few things to fix, then it is probably safe to say something like "its release is at least a few weeks away." My guess is that there others besides me that are checking the store/software page daily wondering if it was released today since based on what we know it could be anywhere from minutes to its release to as long as 6 months to its release. Seems that time frame could be narrowed down at least some.

Either way, I am loyal to LOR and know they will come through and are doing all they can with all these situations. However I also respect that there are some here, particularly newbies, that are going to be pretty anxious and need a little hand holding through "tough times". Remember how excited/nervous/overwhelmed you were your first year or two using LOR, especially before you fully knew/experienced LOR's reputation. Now picture being in those shoes within 30 days of display setup and having all this uncertainty. No wonder some are stressed and making some emotional posts during this time. It seems that instead of chewing their head off, we need to be a bit more reassuring and/or helpful to them.

But hey, this is all just my opinion, and I recognize that that isn't worth much. And hopefully S3 and all the new products, including G3 controllers will go on sale at midnight tonight, and end all this craziness! :P

[jimswinder]

Surfing4Dough wrote:

Either way, I am loyal to LOR and know they will come through and are doing all they can with all these situations. However I also respect that there are some here, particularly newbies, that are going to be pretty anxious and need a little hand holding through "tough times". Remember how excited/nervous/overwhelmed you were your first year or two using LOR, especially before you fully knew/experienced LOR's reputation. Now picture being in those shoes within 30 days of display setup and having all this uncertainty. No wonder some are stressed and making some emotional posts during this time. It seems that instead of chewing their head off, we need to be a bit more reassuring and/or helpful to them.

very well said...again...