Interactive Trigger On Second Controller

[TheDucks]

Look at the diagram:  Standalone ShowTime Director (scroll down)

on https://store.lightorama.com/pages/connecting-a-light-o-rama-system

Your director is just built in to the 1602

All controllers (without directors) have 2 jacks on the same  (and only) network. Same goes for the ELL. You just use those to daisy chain additional controllers . The LOR ID order does not matter. Just keep the cable to the slave ELL under 25' (from the controller providing power)

Edited July 12, 2023 by TheDucks
Added LORID

[dkoehler42]

2 hours ago, TheDucks said:

If you want to use the USB with showtime running the show, Basically remove the DC-MP3 (makes the unit back into a simple 1602W) connection  (you use the jacks behind, not those on the director)

I'm not looking to use both the director and the computer to actually run a show.  My main point to this thread was using the input trigger on a controller that isn't the unit with the director.

During my troubleshooting is when I ran into the issue with seeing multiple controllers.  I was testing if the trigger works on a computer run show vs the director.  I actually have three controllers because one is unreliable in humidity and I'm tired of paying to have it shipped back for repairs.  Last year I had two hardwired together and ELLs connecting the other unit. 

[TheDucks]

1 hour ago, dkoehler42 said:

I'm not looking to use both the director and the computer to actually run a show.  My main point to this thread was using the input trigger on a controller that isn't the unit with the director.

During my troubleshooting is when I ran into the issue with seeing multiple controllers.  I was testing if the trigger works on a computer run show vs the director.  I actually have three controllers because one is unreliable in humidity and I'm tired of paying to have it shipped back for repairs.  Last year I had two hardwired together and ELLs connecting the other unit. 

OK, makes sense now.  Just test your trigger sequence on with only the remote, then make your SDCARD

Humidity at Christmas? Things must have changed from when I was a kid in New Jersey. Isn't snow, frozen Humidity? I remember summers 98F, 98%

Seriously: examine the board and heat sink (near the TO-220 Triacs) closely for white corrosion.  WD40 it. Also see if yo can find a small 120V Strip heater (they are metal, with 2 terminals.   In a pinch, tuck 1 ir 2 Incandecent Nightlights (C7) in side the case. those will generate a small heat.

[dkoehler42]

11 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Humidity at Christmas? Things must have changed from when I was a kid in New Jersey. Isn't snow, frozen Humidity? I remember summers 98F, 98%

Seriously: examine the board and heat sink (near the TO-220 Triacs) closely for white corrosion.  WD40 it. Also see if yo can find a small 120V Strip heater (they are metal, with 2 terminals.   In a pinch, tuck 1 ir 2 Incandecent Nightlights (C7) in side the case. those will generate a small heat.

I'm not home to look, but as re you suggesting I remove the metal case to get to the board?  As far as climate goes, I was using this in October where it finally rained quite a bit after a dry summer. But even last year's winter wasn't really cold for long.  I remember one particular day it got balmy and the controller stopped working.

[TheDucks]

1 hour ago, dkoehler42 said:

I'm not home to look, but as re you suggesting I remove the metal case to get to the board?  As far as climate goes, I was using this in October where it finally rained quite a bit after a dry summer. But even last year's winter wasn't really cold for long.  I remember one particular day it got balmy and the controller stopped working.

Only if you feel safe. You need to keep the water out (the outer cover should deal wit all but direct spray), and keep it dried it out. That is why all my Navy Radar repeaters had strip heaters inside. 

Inside moisture steams in heat. Low voltage logic wont tolerate leakage between trace (really close together these days)

These controllers need to be vertical, high enough that the bottom is not in the 'splash zone'.  I mount all my controllers on (closet) Poles.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K2bP8DfHzBtPpSssiYvdDoUq_u4uhPKG/view?usp=drive_link

The eyebolt on top allows me to hang them in the storage (and attach decorations. Those by the Megatree have simple lighted wreaths from Walmart) (I don't worry much about daytime visibility. It is dark out when the show runs)

 

[dkoehler42]

On 7/12/2023 at 12:42 AM, TheDucks said:

OK, makes sense now.  Just test your trigger sequence on with only the remote, then make your SDCARD

Humidity at Christmas? Things must have changed from when I was a kid in New Jersey. Isn't snow, frozen Humidity? I remember summers 98F, 98%

Seriously: examine the board and heat sink (near the TO-220 Triacs) closely for white corrosion.  WD40 it. Also see if yo can find a small 120V Strip heater (they are metal, with 2 terminals.   In a pinch, tuck 1 ir 2 Incandecent Nightlights (C7) in side the case. those will generate a small heat.

Where are these TO-220 triacs and do I do anything other than spray them?

[TheDucks]

2 hours ago, dkoehler42 said:

Where are these TO-220 triacs and do I do anything other than spray them?

They are inside, mounted to the heatsink (aluminum, which usually corrodes white)  DANGEROUS VOLTAGES *120VAC

But Triac to heatsink would typically trip GFCI or blow fuses. I suspect logic (on the PCB). I am giving you things to look FOR, not a cure (other than keep it dry. Something about how you have placed the unit is aggravating the issue, There a lot of LOR users in NY (including LOR HQ), if it was the climate causing this, there would be more folk asking for help.

[dkoehler42]

9 minutes ago, TheDucks said:

They are inside, mounted to the heatsink (aluminum, which usually corrodes white)  DANGEROUS VOLTAGES *120VAC

But Triac to heatsink would typically trip GFCI or blow fuses. I suspect logic (on the PCB). I am giving you things to look FOR, not a cure (other than keep it dry. Something about how you have placed the unit is aggravating the issue, There a lot of LOR users in NY (including LOR HQ), if it was the climate causing this, there would be more folk asking for help.

Where are the fuses?  I see areas near the wire that say fuse and look like metal contacts to lay two in.

 

As helpful as this has been, I still don't know if the N2 MP3 controller can see an input trigger on another box.  

[TheDucks]

1 hour ago, dkoehler42 said:

Where are the fuses?  I see areas near the wire that say fuse and look like metal contacts to lay two in.

Front panel on your version. (the board can be used in different configurations)

As helpful as this has been, I still don't know if the N2 MP3 controller can see an input trigger on another box.  

 

AFAIK, Triggers are by LOR ID as well as the N2MP3

[dkoehler42]

19 hours ago, TheDucks said:

AFAIK, Triggers are by LOR ID as well as the N2MP3

What do you mean?  I know the show number controls the input number using the Hub, but it does not appear to work for other controllers than the the one the director is on.  My director is on Unit 1 and the old is Unit 2.  I created Show 1, but the director sits and waits for the trigger.

[dkoehler42]

I heard back from tech support, apparently the input would have to be directly connected to the director. It's what I figured, but good to know with certainty.  

[k6ccc]

Interesting.  With computer control, the inputs can be anywhere (as long as it's a non-enhanced LOR network).

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by k6ccc

[TheDucks]

22 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Interesting.  With computer control, the inputs can be anywhere (as long as it's a non-enhanced LOR network).

 

This has me puzzled as well.  ??? The trigger ID is defined in the on demand show. Why should it matter (other than the BOARDS trigger input terminals are not easily accessible  on the controller with the director.

[Orville]

5 hours ago, TheDucks said:

This has me puzzled as well.  ??? The trigger ID is defined in the on demand show. Why should it matter (other than the BOARDS trigger input terminals are not easily accessible  on the controller with the director.

I'm not going to say this is certain, but from my understanding of using a "triggered" sequence with an Director, the controller being triggered is NOT included in other show sequences, it would be a "Triggered" sequence in a specific show number. 

So say you give this sequence, which contains the only controller or controllers you want to trigger, say Controller 2, a CTB16PC.

You would create a show, say show 05 on the SD Card with the sequence you want triggered by a button, motion detector or other type sensor tied to the specific controller, which can NOT be in any other show sequence, else you'd have a conflict. 

So no matter what show is playing, the controller would be set to this show sequence, Show 05 and would always play the triggered show sequence(animation), no matter which show is playing.

As far as I can tell, I don't think it is possible to tie different show sequences to a specific show (but don't quote me on that, as I am not certain if this is possible, but I don't think it is).

I've not tried setting up a "triggered" show with my Director (N4-G4), at least not yet, but this is how I comprehended how it would work reading my Director manual.

So you wouldn't tie the Trigger mechanism directly to the controller, but through the Dircector, so it knows which controller and sequence to run when triggered.

I'm sure there are probably some details I may be missing, but this the way I understood it to work, using a Director that's running the show.

Seems PC ran shows vs Director run shows are very different in how they are setup and used with triggered sequences, which are, most often, animation only type sequences with a Director.

Like stated, this IS MY understanding of how it works.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Orville
Correct typo's

[TheDucks]

@Orville, you make sense. That sorta implies the RS485 ports on the N4-G4  (and probably the others) are not bi-directional .

(and double that for a Master-Slaved set of N4-G4 directors)

The OP is really hosed as they use an ELL to the controller they want the trigger to come from, so wires to the Director are out.

[dkoehler42]

2 hours ago, TheDucks said:

The OP is really hosed as they use an ELL to the controller they want the trigger to come from, so wires to the Director are out.

I'm not hosed, but it would be helpful if that were in their documentation.  The support tech suggested using a wireless motion detector and the input header for that controller/director.

[Orville]

6 hours ago, TheDucks said:

@Orville, you make sense. That sorta implies the RS485 ports on the N4-G4  (and probably the others) are not bi-directional .

(and double that for a Master-Slaved set of N4-G4 directors)

The OP is really hosed as they use an ELL to the controller they want the trigger to come from, so wires to the Director are out.

I'm pretty positive the Director is bi-directional on the ports, just that its circuitry may be limited when using a trigger and why it may not be able to be utilized on the controller directly. 

 Otherwise I don't see how it could control a show since the controller, I would think, has to tell the Director it's ready for more data from the SD Card to keep the show going. 

Otherwise, I doubt a show would even start if these ports were not bi-directional.

Basically, the Director is your PC(with limitations), the SD Card is your Hard Drive or sequence source for your shows, so I'm pretty positive a Directors port or ports are definitely bi-directional, or it couldn't be used for running a show.

Make sense?

Edited July 23, 2023 by Orville

[k6ccc]

2 hours ago, Orville said:

Otherwise I don't see how it could control a show since the controller, I would think, has to tell the Director it's ready for more data from the SD Card to keep the show going. 

Nope.  When a show is running, the controller (Director or PC) is just spitting forth data.  The controllers do not ACK the data.  The show will happily run with controllers not connected.  In fact when operating on an Enhanced LOR network, the controllers are not allowed to send data.