Interactive Trigger On Second Controller

[k6ccc]

Your "normal" condition I assume will be:  Controller-1 <> ELL-1 <> radio link <> ELL-2 <> Controller-2.

In that case, each controller will provide power to the ELL that is connected to that controller.  All is good.

If you replaced one controller with a PC connection so it became:  PC <> USB to RS-485 adapter <> ELL-1 <> radio link <> ELL-2 <> Controller-2.  In this case you must use the B version of the RS485 adapter because it becomes the power source for ELL-1.  

On the other hand, if you simply added the PC connection, so it becomes:  PC <> USB to RS-485 <> Controller-1 <> ELL-1 <> radio link <> ELL-2 <> Controller-2.  In this case, you do not NEED to use the B version of the USB485 adapter because the Controller-1 will supply power to ELL-1.  I suspect this may what you did and this would be the reason that the director powered up even though the controller that it was installed into was not powered on.  The Director also gets power via the Cat-5 cable from the controller that it is installed into (as I understand it), so in this case, the Booster version of the USB to RS-485 adapter is also providing power to the Director.

Make sense?

 

[TheDucks]

You need to Power each of the ELL somehow.

The LIGHT controller should normally supply power via pins 3 + 6 on a CAT5 cable (25' or less)

 

[dkoehler42]

15 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Your "normal" condition I assume will be:  Controller-1 <> ELL-1 <> radio link <> ELL-2 <> Controller-2.

In that case, each controller will provide power to the ELL that is connected to that controller.  All is good.

If you replaced one controller with a PC connection so it became:  PC <> USB to RS-485 adapter <> ELL-1 <> radio link <> ELL-2 <> Controller-2.  In this case you must use the B version of the RS485 adapter because it becomes the power source for ELL-1.  

On the other hand, if you simply added the PC connection, so it becomes:  PC <> USB to RS-485 <> Controller-1 <> ELL-1 <> radio link <> ELL-2 <> Controller-2.  In this case, you do not NEED to use the B version of the USB485 adapter because the Controller-1 will supply power to ELL-1.  I suspect this may what you did and this would be the reason that the director powered up even though the controller that it was installed into was not powered on.  The Director also gets power via the Cat-5 cable from the controller that it is installed into (as I understand it), so in this case, the Booster version of the USB to RS-485 adapter is also providing power to the Director.

Make sense?

 

Not really.  I had the USB485B(this one) connected to the second rj45 port on the older unit and in the "Net1" on the G3 unit.  The other rj45 ports were respectively connected with their normal ELL that I leave plugged in.  From an IT perspective, I'm not getting why two controllers plugged into AC outlets, each having a wireless radio attached, and making a connection to software cannot see the other controller via wireless.  It almost feels like a programming issue that would require me to have a dedicated ELL just for my computer to reach them, and I only have two ELL.

 

I tried making a show on the hub using the trigger option, and now my Unit 01 is sitting on TRIG, despite me triggering the motion detector that now lights up on Unit 02.  I tried using the simple mode and the advanced mode.  I did not enable the G3 setting since I'm using a gen 1 controller.  I also verified the input trigger port on Unit 02 is input trigger 1.

[k6ccc]

Remember I said I don't use Directors (I've never even seen one).  Particularly the multi-network type, so I don't know what the powering is with those.

11 minutes ago, dkoehler42 said:

I'm not getting why two controllers plugged into AC outlets, each having a wireless radio attached, and making a connection to software cannot see the other controller via wireless. 

It will work fine.  You just have to make sure how power is handled on the multi-network director - both power to the director and sourcing power from the controller to the ELL.

12 minutes ago, dkoehler42 said:

It almost feels like a programming issue that would require me to have a dedicated ELL just for my computer to reach them, and I only have two ELL.

Nope.

 

[TheDucks]

You need to configure EACH ELL (to work as a pair )

You use the 485B and PC for this step using HU

If you are using the Director, that is the last time the 485B is in the network.  Each controller powers the connected ELL

The director normally gets power from the controller...

BUT you can also use a common 12VDC wall wort (center +) if you need more power (1 controller AND a ELL might strain the normal method)

[TheDucks]

Net1 is the input to the N4G3.

IMHO that should NOT go direct to the ELL,   as it tries to power 2 devices on 1 cable.

try 

N4 <-> Controller <-> ELL

[dkoehler42]

On 7/7/2023 at 6:47 PM, TheDucks said:

Net1 is the input to the N4G3.

IMHO that should NOT go direct to the ELL,   as it tries to power 2 devices on 1 cable.

try 

N4 <-> Controller <-> ELL

I don't follow you.  What is the "N4"?

[TheDucks]

38 minutes ago, dkoehler42 said:

I don't follow you.  What is the "N4"?

I shortened my notation

N4G3 ? you also shortened all the yours to G3 

The bottom line is you may be running out of power for both the ELL at that end and the director .

The internal accessory power is limited.  and you also want to power the PIR (motion detector). I suggest you use a 12VDC wall wort  attached to the PIR power terminals ONLY and only attach the contacts to the controller )

 

[dkoehler42]

3 hours ago, TheDucks said:

I shortened my notation

N4G3 ? you also shortened all the yours to G3 

The bottom line is you may be running out of power for both the ELL at that end and the director .

The internal accessory power is limited.  and you also want to power the PIR (motion detector). I suggest you use a 12VDC wall wort  attached to the PIR power terminals ONLY and only attach the contacts to the controller )

 

I did shorten G3-MP3, which is written on the unit attached to the controller.  I don't know what an N4 in Lightorama is.  As far as the power concerns, my motion detector is attached to the other, older unit.  I only have the preinstalled MP3 unit and ELL on the newer controller and the motion detector and an ELL on the old(blue board) controller.

[k6ccc]

The N4-G4-MP3 is the latest and greatest Director.  It sounds like Theducks assumed that is the version you have, but it appears you have an older version - hence the N4 reference made no sense to you.

 

[Orville]

If you have a 4 port Director, it will be an N4-G4, there were some labeled N4-G3, but there were also some other versions prior to these.  I think there might have been a 3 port version, but not completely sure, which could possibly be labeled as N3-G3, I know there were some N2-G3 Directors that only have 2 ports. 

So if you can tell us how many ports (Cat5 jacks) are on your Director, that would help us identify which Director you may be using. 

Usually Net 1 is 2 Cat5 jacks, then Net 2 (and possibly a Net 3?), Net 1 (Regular Network) both jacks are wired together, just like the controllers cat5 jack's.  The other Net jacks become Aux A(Net 2) and Aux B(Net 3), with an N4-G4  Net 4 would be Aux C.  This usually would apply only to Directors with the built in Time Clock. 

Hopefully, I didn't confuse you even further.  As there are a wide variety of Directors available to run shows.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Orville

[dkoehler42]

16 hours ago, Orville said:

If you have a 4 port Director, it will be an N4-G4, there were some labeled N4-G3, but there were also some other versions prior to these.  I think there might have been a 3 port version, but not completely sure, which could possibly be labeled as N3-G3, I know there were some N2-G3 Directors that only have 2 ports. 

So if you can tell us how many ports (Cat5 jacks) are on your Director, that would help us identify which Director you may be using. 

Usually Net 1 is 2 Cat5 jacks, then Net 2 (and possibly a Net 3?), Net 1 (Regular Network) both jacks are wired together, just like the controllers cat5 jack's.  The other Net jacks become Aux A(Net 2) and Aux B(Net 3), with an N4-G4  Net 4 would be Aux C.  This usually would apply only to Directors with the built in Time Clock. 

Hopefully, I didn't confuse you even further.  As there are a wide variety of Directors available to run shows.

I have a G3-MP3 Director that has an RJ11 and an RJ45 on Net1 and an RJ45 on Net2.  Last year I ran a cat6 on one of them to another controller and an ELL to a third controller.  I'm not sure which version that makes this director.

 

However, I don't have the input header or motion detector attached to this unit.  Does the director limit where trigger inputs can be used?

[TheDucks]

I think we are chasing 2 issues. Lets verify the ELL can connect to controller #2

If you hook up the host (pc end) to just that ELL (no controller/director attached) using the RS485B adapter:

Can you see the controller attached to the (client) ELL using HU?

Can HU now see contact operation on controller 2?  (assumes LOR ID is also 02. Your sequences need to match whatever ID this really is (but it cant match controller #1)

This confirms that the ELL can successfully talk with the remote (controller #2)

Please confirm your exact controller model is: LOR1602MP3g3

OK now we work on the sequence / channel configuration.

Your sequences should all use the Regular network and the ELL is plugged into Net 1 on the director (your devices don't require doing 2 networks at this time, so KISS.)

A S5 user will need to step in and walk you thru configuring an interactive show using S5

The last step is make the SD card

 

[Orville]

20 hours ago, dkoehler42 said:

I have a G3-MP3 Director that has an RJ11 and an RJ45 on Net1 and an RJ45 on Net2.  Last year I ran a cat6 on one of them to another controller and an ELL to a third controller.  I'm not sure which version that makes this director.

 

However, I don't have the input header or motion detector attached to this unit.  Does the director limit where trigger inputs can be used?

All Directors I have purchased (stand-alone, either connected to a CTB16PC controller or AC Adapter for power) only had cat5, RJ45 jacks, I've never seen an MP3 Director with a Telephone (RJ11) jack built into it.  Not saying there isn't, I've just never seen one.  Maybe the Directors built into the controllers are different in this respect, but does seem strange to me they'd have an RJ11 jack, and not 2 RJ45 cat5 jacks. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Orville

[Jimehc]

The Commercial AC Controllers with the Director Board Add-On -

 

[dkoehler42]

5 hours ago, Orville said:

All Directors I have purchased (stand-alone, either connected to a CTB16PC controller or AC Adapter for power) only had cat5, RJ45 jacks, I've never seen an MP3 Director with a Telephone (RJ11) jack built into it.  Not saying there isn't, I've just never seen one.  Maybe the Directors built into the controllers are different in this respect, but does seem strange to me they'd have an RJ11 jack, and not 2 RJ45 cat5 jacks. 

It's not an exact picture match, but other than the PM being moved to the side, it looks an awful lot like this one.   Supposedly it's a N2-G4-MP3 Director.  My order shows "PRO Series LOR1602Wg3-MP3" and it was $475.95 last May, probably on a promo price.  The first port is definitely smaller than an RJ45 as it only has six pins and I physically cannot fit the RJ45 head on my cat cable in.  The other two ports appear to have eight pins.

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by dkoehler42
Added information

[dkoehler42]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:37 PM, TheDucks said:

I think we are chasing 2 issues. Lets verify the ELL can connect to controller #2

If you hook up the host (pc end) to just that ELL (no controller/director attached) using the RS485B adapter:

Can you see the controller attached to the (client) ELL using HU?

Can HU now see contact operation on controller 2?  (assumes LOR ID is also 02. Your sequences need to match whatever ID this really is (but it cant match controller #1)

This confirms that the ELL can successfully talk with the remote (controller #2)

Please confirm your exact controller model is: LOR1602MP3g3

OK now we work on the sequence / channel configuration.

Your sequences should all use the Regular network and the ELL is plugged into Net 1 on the director (your devices don't require doing 2 networks at this time, so KISS.)

A S5 user will need to step in and walk you thru configuring an interactive show using S5

The last step is make the SD card

 

I was able to take the ELL off Unit 1 and make the connection that way.  I know my two controllers can talk across ELL when it's just them; I had them connected last year that way.  My concern is I was connected from the computer via USB485B to a controller that had an ELL on the other port and HU wasn't seeing the other controller that also has an ELL connected.  What I'm guessing from my experimentation is that I need to have an ELL directly to the USB485 or hardwire a cat cable directly to the controller.

I'm also not using S5, I'm still on 4.4.16.  I'm not familiar with multiple networks and I'm only using (as far as I know)one network.  I read somewhere the director can use both RJ45 ports for the same network.  My original issue remains however, and I'm guessing the director doesn't like input from any other controllers, which means I'll need to pick up the LORxxxx Input Connector and wire any triggers into that.

[TheDucks]

I see an issue with what you tried.

You can't have 2 'directors' of the same network and have it behave. The built in on is one, and your PC is the other.

Look at the Markings: Net 1 has 2 jacks (phone and RJ45), Net 2 has 1. They are separate (Regular, AuxA)

Do you have the manuals? You can download them at: https://store.lightorama.com/pages/hardware-manuals-and-documentation

 

[dkoehler42]

7 minutes ago, TheDucks said:

I see an issue with what you tried.

You can't have 2 'directors' of the same network and have it behave. The built in on is one, and your PC is the other.

Look at the Markings: Net 1 has 2 jacks (phone and RJ45), Net 2 has 1. They are separate (Regular, AuxA)

Do you have the manuals? You can download them at: https://store.lightorama.com/pages/hardware-manuals-and-documentation

 

So according to your logic, I could either hardwire to one and use an ELL to connect to the second unit.  If I wanted to see three or more controllers at once, I'll need another ELL or to hardwire multiple controllers together.  Is that correct?

[TheDucks]

30 minutes ago, dkoehler42 said:

So according to your logic, I could either hardwire to one and use an ELL to connect to the second unit.  If I wanted to see three or more controllers at once, I'll need another ELL or to hardwire multiple controllers together.  Is that correct?

Not what I was saying. You can daisy chain lots of AC controllers (and even the CMB24: dumb RGB)

What can't be run is the director AND the USB dongle on the same network.  Normally,  A director system only use the USB to configure INDIVIDUAL PIECES.

If you want to use the USB with showtime running the show, Basically remove the DC-MP3 (makes the unit back into a simple 1602W) connection  (you use the jacks behind, not those on the director)