Interactive Trigger On Second Controller

[dkoehler42]

I currently have a gen 1 1602 controller(Unit 02) and a G3-MP3(Unit 01) that I was looking to test with; each are connected via ELL.  Back when I bought the first box, I also picked up the CTB16 Input Controller and the PR Motion Detector, which I wired to the ground, +5, and A1 ports.  I created a basic audio sequence and tried using the Hardware Utility(version 4.4.16) to create a show on my SD card using "Plays when triggered" using switch number 1 and tried both normally open and closed.  So far with the CTB16 connected to Unit 02 and the SD card inside Unit 01, it's not working.  I believe I have this right, but normally opened just never ran, the G3-MP3 just says "trig" and the normally closed just automatically runs.  I've even turned off the controller with the input controller and it still runs on NC. 

Is there a way to make a show/sequence run via trigger on another controller than the SD card is on?

[TheDucks]

Triggers can not work (be detected) on a Enhanced Network.   Split into 2 networks if you need enhanced for the other controller

[k6ccc]

10 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Triggers can not work (be detected) on a Enhanced Network. 

I don't think that's the issue.  He never said it was an Enhanced network, but he did say he was using ELLs - which don't work with ELOR.

Do make sure you specified the correct Unit ID and Channel for the input trigger.  I use input triggers every day of the year, but not with a Director.  At least when operating from a computer, inputs can be on any controller that supports them - and is NOT on an Enhanced LOR network.

 

[dkoehler42]

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what an enhanced network means in this case.  I believe I set the correct device and input number when I created the trigger in the software.  Additionally, can anyone verify the motion detector LOR sells is NC?  I feel like I used this year's ago on just the older 1602 and connected to a computer via ELL. 

[k6ccc]

11 minutes ago, dkoehler42 said:

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure what an enhanced network means in this case. 

The "standard" LOR network allows any device on the network to send data.  That limits throughput because all devices when sending data MUST pause on a regular basis to see if some other device needs to send some data.  Later on, LOR came up the Enhanced LOR network which solves that "problem", such that the Director or show computer sends a command that tells all other devices that they are not allowed to EVER send data.  That means that the show computer or Director can send continuously without having to pause to all other devices to send data.  This improves throughput by about double.

Older controllers are not capable of using Enhanced LOR networks, nor are ELLs.  To change a network to ELOR, is a setting in Network Preferences (I don't know if there is an additional setup if using a Director since I don't use a Director).

 

[dkoehler42]

Given that I never changed my network type, I'm guessing that's not the issue.  Is it even possible to use an old input header on an old box connected wirelessly to a much newer controller with an SD card as the brain?

[k6ccc]

Should work, but as I said, I don't use a Director.

Do you have the ability to connect the LOR network to computer and text the input using the Hardware Utility to make sure the input is working?

 

[dkoehler42]

So I pulled out the laptop I used for running shows on a computer, connected via USB485B and a cat cable to my older box, Unit 02, and tested.  The channels appear to go on, but I found this when I removed the header from the controller.  

 

I can't help but wonder if there's corrosion or something else bridging these contacts.  I've shipped this controller back twice because of weird behavior, including shows stopping entirely when it's humid(think Fall rain or warm Winter shows).  When I put the header on, I didn't see any green marks.  I'm starting to get the feeling I'm just out of luck here, because this is going to require sending it back in for a third time.  Just to verify, which way does the CTB16 attach to the board?

Just another observation, I have my G3-MP3 powered on, and both have an ELL connected to one of the ports.  I don't know if it makes a difference in that I'm connected to 02 and not 01, but I don't show my other controller.  

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by dkoehler42
Removing extra picture

[k6ccc]

There is a config screen that sets each input to be either Normally Open or Normally Closed.  That will change the status when nothing is connected - and of course what you have to do to change the status.

 

[dkoehler42]

6 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

There is a config screen that sets each input to be either Normally Open or Normally Closed.  That will change the status when nothing is connected - and of course what you have to do to change the status.

 

Where is that setting?  Also, how would an NC or NO setting matter if there's nothing connected to the board? That looks like it's a phantom signal on 2 and 3.

[k6ccc]

On the HU, with the controller selected and input test selected, at the bottom, select "Config".  There will be checkboxes for NO vs NC for each input.

With nothing connected, all the inputs would be open, so if an input is set to normally closed, that open state would be the triggered state.

 

[dkoehler42]

2 hours ago, k6ccc said:

On the HU, with the controller selected and input test selected, at the bottom, select "Config".  There will be checkboxes for NO vs NC for each input.

With nothing connected, all the inputs would be open, so if an input is set to normally closed, that open state would be the triggered state.

 

 

They were all N/O and still showing 2 and 3 with input despite nothing being attached.  When I changed to N/C, input channels 1, 2, and 3 were green without anything connected.  Changing it back to N/O reverted to 2 and 3 only.  Just a thought, I think the 1602 only supports six inputs, where did eight come from?  

 

I plugged in the input header and on N/O they all stayed off, even when I moved the motion detector.  When I changed them to N/C while the header was connected, 1, 2, and 3 are green again.  

Edited July 7, 2023 by dkoehler42
Additional Testing

[k6ccc]

That does not sound right - but I have never attempted to use inputs on any AC controller.

 

[TheDucks]

A motion detector needs power in addition to the 2 leads from the switched contacts.

Did you wire the 9V terminal to the + of the motion detector? (and the - to GND)

The switch (contacts) go to the input and GND  Do not apply any voltage to the inputs.

FWIW many motion detectors (alarm systems) are NC, but may have NO terminals. You will connect C to ground, and your choice (just match that in HU setting) NC or NO

[dkoehler42]

4 minutes ago, TheDucks said:

A motion detector needs power in addition to the 2 leads from the switched contacts.

Did you wire the 9V terminal to the + of the motion detector? (and the - to GND)

The switch (contacts) go to the input and GND  Do not apply any voltage to the inputs.

FWIW many motion detectors (alarm systems) are NC, but may have NO terminals. You will connect C to ground, and your choice (just match that in HU setting) NC or NO

I haven't checked the wiring connections on the motion detector, but I do have connections at "G", "+5", and "A1". 

[TheDucks]

I don't have the docs (and LOR docs do not list one), but 5V sounds too low for off the shelf motion (12 and 24 are common in the alarm business)

[TheDucks]

5 minutes ago, TheDucks said:

I don't have the docs (and LOR docs do not list one), but 5V sounds too low for off the shelf motion (12 and 24 are common in the alarm business)

OK the store sheet had the connections. It is a 12V device that they run on 9V

It is NC only. The jump 1 of the contacts to the power ground,  so only 3 wires are used to the controller.  9V, Gnd and Input 1 at the controller

[dkoehler42]

I have updates after the last suggestions.  I changed the 5v to 9v and we have power to the motion detector.  I set it to N/O and the first channel lights up green in the hardware tester, which keeps sending a trigger signal that I can see in the control panel.  When I changed it to N/C, two and three light up green, but the motion detector does start the show.  I had to wire both units to my computer using the USB485B because the other wouldn't appear in the hardware utility despite each of them having an ELL connected.  Additionally, I noticed the newer G3 unit powered on when I connected the cat cable and the power switch was off.  I've actually seen the power rocker switch not shut the unit off in the past, which has caused me to need to remove the power source if I need to restart it.  

 

My question now is how to do I make this work wirelessly and hopefully without my computer?  I have a box I built to house speakers, included a channel specifically to power them, and have them connected to the 3.5 mm port on the G3-MP3.

[k6ccc]

You had to use the USB485B when using the computer because each ELL normally gets power from a nearby controller.  Since it was not connected to a controller, but rather a computer, the B version of the USB to RS-485 adpter is required in order to supply power to the ELL.  When you connect the ELL to an AC controller, the controller will supply power to the ELL.

 

 

[dkoehler42]

6 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

You had to use the USB485B when using the computer because each ELL normally gets power from a nearby controller.  Since it was not connected to a controller, but rather a computer, the B version of the USB to RS-485 adpter is required in order to supply power to the ELL.  When you connect the ELL to an AC controller, the controller will supply power to the ELL.

 

 

I'm not sure I'm understanding you.  Are you saying I'd need to connect one controller and an ELL to my computer to see the other controller wirelessly?