RGB newbie questions

[Dcroc]

I ordered the Holidaycoro 27ch dumb controller.  Says 7v to 12v.  I have a 12v power supply I plan on using.  My question is, since my input power supply is 12v, do all the nodes used on the board also need to be 12 volt? 5v nodes would not work with this controller?

[Grinch]

you are correct 12 volt 

[Dcroc]

So what is the most commonly used voltage?

[dgrant]

When it comes to RGB dumb strips, I think the most common is 12V. I'm using the 12volt myself and even with my longest run of about 75 feet, using 16 gauge wire to it, it was nice and bright.

[Dcroc]

Good to know. I am expecting to have some at 100 feet. Guess 12v was the better way to go. I just see a LOT of nodes that are 5 volt.

[dgrant]

Nodes are usually smart types and require a different controller. I use 5V pixel nodes on my pixel tree and this next season, I'll be trying some 12v pixel nodes for arches but my window frames are 12V dumb strips being run by LOR's CMB24 DC controller.

[Dcroc]

You notice any lag with the LOR contoller? It looks like the easiest way to go, but also the most expensive.

[dgrant]

Depends on which you are referring too but actually, both the pixel controller and the DC controller, plus all the AC controllers, there was no lag at all. The pixel controller runs on E1.31 via TCPIP which is DMX over TCPIP. It was getting a gazzillion commands and worked beautifully. The CMB24 is on the LOR RS485 buss and it was fine. 

[Vince4xmas]

Running 6 LOR AC controllers and 3 LOR CMB24 (rgb) on LOR network with no speed issues.

[Dcroc]

Well, that was easy.  Hooked everything up, and got it all working with LOR in about 20 mins. Now I just need to learn a few tricks with programming when it comes to colors. Trying to get them a nice rich Halloween purple is proving tricky.

[sax]

That is the advantage of LOR. Quick and easy. Durable. Great customer service if you have questions or issues. Yes, it costs a touch more. But when time and ease of use are desired there is nothing better.

Dmx, a little work. E1.31 a little more work. But even they get easier. And all integrate nicely with LOR software.

Colors are truly a personal preference. I worked way too hard on my colors the first year. If it's not perfect it doesn't seem to matter to people watching the show. Even when I used original crappy orange everyone watching said....orange.

So you could spend days and days getting your colors just perfect. AND you can feel good about it. But as far as the audience....you could spend your time making more sequences or elements instead and they don't seem to care if the Orange is not exactly Orange.

[lightingnewb]

So, after reading this, I have some questions about RGB dumb strips myself (particularly the 8 pack that LOR sells).

1. I'm confused as to how the ribbons connect to my LOR controllers. I know I need to buy the CMB-24D Deluxe Card that LOR sells, in addition to the 12v power supply, I'm just confused on how it is then connected to my existing controllers. I have 2 Residential series 16 channel 3rd gen controllers. The dumb RGB ribbon would replace 15 of my 22 current channels. Would each 16 ft. ribbon count as 1 channel? Or 3? and how does it affect how I sequence them?
2. If I understand correctly, the dumb strips only allow you to control the whole strip at once, right? Does this mean that you only have three colors that are possible to have on at once? (Either red, green, or blue, but no combinations?) Or is the coloring kind of like the smart RGB where there is like 2 million and counting colors to sequence with?
3. Would you recommend buying the dumb RGB from LOR or from Holidaycoro.com? Both seem good, but I feel more confused at HolidayCoro.

Ugh. The brain is working too hard - I think I see the smoke coming from my ears.

 

Please help - I'm lost and confused.

[Darryl Lambert]

So, after reading this, I have some questions about RGB dumb strips myself (particularly the 8 pack that LOR sells).

1. I'm confused as to how the ribbons connect to my LOR controllers. I know I need to buy the CMB-24D Deluxe Card that LOR sells, in addition to the 12v power supply, I'm just confused on how it is then connected to my existing controllers. I have 2 Residential series 16 channel 3rd gen controllers. The dumb RGB ribbon would replace 15 of my 22 current channels. Would each 16 ft. ribbon count as 1 channel? Or 3? and how does it affect how I sequence them?

The CMB 24D is just another LOR controller & you connect your data the same as your residential ones ( cat 5 ).

If you connect a 16 ft. ribbon it counts as 3 channels ( 1 red 1 green 1 blue )

 

 

If I understand correctly, the dumb strips only allow you to control the whole strip at once, right? Does this mean that you only have three colors that are possible to have on at once? (Either red, green, or blue, but no combinations?) Or is the coloring kind of like the smart RGB where there is like 2 million and counting colors to sequence with?

 

Correct the whole strip is controlled at once. By varying the intensities of each color you can achieve whatever color you like. ie. red 100% & blue 100% give you a pinky purple but Red 100% & blue 90% will give you a darker purple & all 3 colors 100% will give you white.

The color mixing on RGB strips is the same whether there smart or dumb. The only difference is that with smart RGB you can control each pixel independantly form each other.

 

 

 

Would you recommend buying the dumb RGB from LOR or from Holidaycoro.com? Both seem good, but I feel more confused at HolidayCoro.

 

Thats up to the individual. Both sell good products & there customer service is great from the dealings I've had & heard. LOR is more expensive but is more plug & play than the other vendors. You'll find cheaper out there but it's definately more DIY & depending how much work you want to put into assembling things you can save $$$$

Edited February 3, 2015 by Darryl Lambert

[sax]

LOR components typically run on the LOR network. So if you purchase the LOR DC card you will just connect it to your other LOR controllers as a seperate ID. And then you can control 24 DC items. Now, it doesn't have to be rgb elements. But most of the time it is. So, if you are using it to control rgb elements, then you can plug 8 seperate rgb devices in since each rgb uses 3 channels.

If you purchase controllers from holiday coro then you will need to add a new network to your setup. DMX. It is very similar to the LOR network in that you add a USB device to your computer and then using cat 5 cable you go from the USB device to your first controller. And like the LOR network, you can daisy chain to additional controllers.

There is additional work you will need to do to get the dmx network working but it is easy enough. You also have to purchase the USB to DMX device...I use a holiday Coro entec pro compatible device.

LOR and DMX networks must remain seperate.

In either scenario, the end result is you will be controlling dumb rgb devices. Meaning for each output on the card it will be sequenced with 3 channels...red,green and blue. And to program those 3 channels it is best to use the color fade tool. By using this, you will be able to get many colors. And each element can be controlled independently.

As far as to what devices to plug into the controllers...you can use the holiday Coro lights on the LOR card or the LOR lights on the DMX card as long as you are purchasing the dumb rgb devices. They are interchangeable. And I notice no difference in how the lights actually look. There are many rgb devices from bullet lights, to strips, to square or rectangle lights and even flood lights. All work on either card.

How many lights can you put on each output? Well the LOR dc card can actually handle more current so that allows more lights. But, I have over 100 rgb bulbs on one channel of a DMX card and the required current is very low thanks to it being led. Point is, you can get a lot of bulbs on one channel even with the lower current controllers.

With holiday Coro you do get great support and some warranty.

With LOR you get great support and 2 year warranty.

Good luck,

Sax

[Vince4xmas]

Stated very well Sax.

[Phrog30]

I have used LOR and HolidayCoro stuff. With regards to RGB, the HolidayCoro stuff was easier to setup and test. With LOR RGB I always had to refer to the manual to remember what channel/macro to enable just to test. Setting up isn't hard with LOR, but I can tell you that HolidayCoro is easier. Testing with HolidayCoro is a button press. Also, LOR can be up to 75% more cost. Example, the pixel tree I built (copy from Brian) was $1400 just for the lights. HolidayCoro would cost you around $400 (that's lights, controller, enclosure) . The HolidayCoro tree will also be faster due to E1.31, not the 1980's technology 485 protocol that LOR seems to admire. I had areas in my show the were choppy, E1.31 had zero lag.

Now, there are other vendors that compete with HolidayCoro, but my only experience is between the two.

[lightingnewb]

The CMB 24D is just another LOR controller & you connect your data the same as your residential ones ( cat 5 ).

If you connect a 16 ft. ribbon it counts as 3 channels ( 1 red 1 green 1 blue )

 

Correct the whole strip is controlled at once. By varying the intensities of each color you can achieve whatever color you like. ie. red 100% & blue 100% give you a pinky purple but Red 100% & blue 90% will give you a darker purple & all 3 colors 100% will give you white.

The color mixing on RGB strips is the same whether there smart or dumb. The only difference is that with smart RGB you can control each pixel independantly form each other.

 

 

Thats up to the individual. Both sell good products & there customer service is great from the dealings I've had & heard. LOR is more expensive but is more plug & play than the other vendors. You'll find cheaper out there but it's definately more DIY & depending how much work you want to put into assembling things you can save $$$$

 

So wait.... if I use the 8 pack, does that mean I need to buy individual power supplies for each strip? Does this also mean I will end up using 24 channels rather than the fifteen they replace? (I'm talking more about when I plug the devices into the controller for LOR, not in the sequence editor).

 

When I go to buy the DC card, it doesn't specify if it comes in some sort of enclosure to protect it... do I need to make my own? What have you guys done?

 

I assume there must be some video tutorials on how to sequence with RGB dumb lights... I'll figure that out on my own. I'm more or less curious as to how it'll affect my channel count (If it significantly drops the number of extension cords I use and plug in, I may just add new elements. However, on the flip side, I'm worried I'm going to have to buy a new add-on controller if it takes 24 channels on my controllers. Or does the DC card not affect my 32 other potential channels on my other controllers?

[Darryl Lambert]

So wait.... if I use the 8 pack, does that mean I need to buy individual power supplies for each strip? Does this also mean I will end up using 24 channels rather than the fifteen they replace? (I'm talking more about when I plug the devices into the controller for LOR, not in the sequence editor).

 

When I go to buy the DC card, it doesn't specify if it comes in some sort of enclosure to protect it... do I need to make my own? What have you guys done?

 

I assume there must be some video tutorials on how to sequence with RGB dumb lights... I'll figure that out on my own. I'm more or less curious as to how it'll affect my channel count (If it significantly drops the number of extension cords I use and plug in, I may just add new elements. However, on the flip side, I'm worried I'm going to have to buy a new add-on controller if it takes 24 channels on my controllers. Or does the DC card not affect my 32 other potential channels on my other controllers?

If the 8 pack you refer to is the 8 ribbon package sold by LOR then you will need 1 power suppy with enough wattage for the 8 ribbons & a waterproof enclosure large enough for the CMB24D + power supply. Lots of people are using the " cableguard 1500 " it can be found lots of places just google it. You could also use some of the enclosers that were designed for lawn sprinkler systems. I have both the cableguard & rainbird enclosures in use and no problems with either one. I like the rainbird ones a little better because they don't have the holes precut into them & I can drill as many as I need whereas the cableguard has a bunch of holes precut and I have to seal the ones not in use.

If you buy the 8 ribbon package you will only have those 8 ribbons attached to it. There will be no spare channels left. That controller will be full. It doesn't take any channels away from your existing controlers. You said you have 2 - 16 channel controllers now so you will have those 32 channels to do whatever you want with plus you will have your 8 ribbons hooked up to your CMB24D. 

Just look at the CMB24D as a 24 channel controller nothing more. It's completly independant from your other ones. It gets it own unit ID # & everything. 

 

One other thing to consider is that the CMB24D is a DC controller & should be kept fairly close to whatever your controlling because of voltage drop. The further away your RGB strips are from the controller the larger gauge wire you will need. 10 feet's okay with the wire thats attached to the strips just don't expect to go 50 feet away without some issues. The strip probably won't even light

[k6ccc]

My DC controllers (three of them)  and SanDevices E1.31 cards (two of them) that are outside year round are either in PVC electrical boxes, or inside of a brick light column that was built in part to hold them.

[lightingnewb]

If the 8 pack you refer to is the 8 ribbon package sold by LOR then you will need 1 power suppy with enough wattage for the 8 ribbons & a waterproof enclosure large enough for the CMB24D + power supply. Lots of people are using the " cableguard 1500 " it can be found lots of places just google it. You could also use some of the enclosers that were designed for lawn sprinkler systems. I have both the cableguard & rainbird enclosures in use and no problems with either one. I like the rainbird ones a little better because they don't have the holes precut into them & I can drill as many as I need whereas the cableguard has a bunch of holes precut and I have to seal the ones not in use.

If you buy the 8 ribbon package you will only have those 8 ribbons attached to it. There will be no spare channels left. That controller will be full. It doesn't take any channels away from your existing controlers. You said you have 2 - 16 channel controllers now so you will have those 32 channels to do whatever you want with plus you will have your 8 ribbons hooked up to your CMB24D. 

Just look at the CMB24D as a 24 channel controller nothing more. It's completly independant from your other ones. It gets it own unit ID # & everything. 

 

One other thing to consider is that the CMB24D is a DC controller & should be kept fairly close to whatever your controlling because of voltage drop. The further away your RGB strips are from the controller the larger gauge wire you will need. 10 feet's okay with the wire thats attached to the strips just don't expect to go 50 feet away without some issues. The strip probably won't even light

Darryl,

 

Thank you SOOOO much for clarifying everything. I am now understanding what I need to do. Problem is, though, that much of my lighting will be over 50 ft away from where the controllers currently reside.

 

If I use, for example, the RF-V5 to wirelessly connect the CMB-24D to the computer, would this work?

[i.e. I put the CMB-24D and 12v power supply out on my roof, where everything using RGB will be less than 50 ft away, and use the RF-V5 (Easy Light Linker/Wi-Fi Linker) to connect it to the PC.]

 

Just looking at my options now that you bring up the distance issue.  Thanks for your advice.