PC kit is blowing the breaker

[Tim Benson]

Look at the first picture, the loop of wire with the yellow lugs. that is the neutral jumper.

Tim

[94-302-vert]

OK, I am going to do this with the contoller in front of me.

Resistance across right fuse (channel 9-16): without fuse: OC @ 2000k ohm setting, with fuse 0.3 ohms

Resistance Hot input to hot jumper (with Fuse) right side: 0.3 Ohms

Resistance Hot input to neutrals (right side with fuse): 169.7 Ohms, without fuse, OC @ 2000k ohm setting

Resistance Hot input to heat-sink = OC @ 2000k ohm setting

Never changed a triac on this board. I see no signs of arcing anywhere (good lighting naked eye).

What else do I need to look at? I don't want to keep trying to plug this in hoping it will work...

[Rafter Bar R]

Disconnect from the board and check the power cord with an ohm meter. I have seen cords go bad.

[94-302-vert]

I tired 3 different cords... Including one off one of the boards that was working... When it was sparking in the outlets (if I plugged into a live outlet) it was eroding the last 0.050" or so of the hot terminal....



So def not the cord...

[Dennis Cherry]

Remove your jumpers and see if 1/2 of the board will power up without the sparking, if that works move the power cord to the other half of the board and try again.

You got to start eliminating the good from the bad.

Let us know the results.

[94-302-vert]

Only powering the right side does not work. I have not tried powering the left side only.

[LightORamaDan]

I am not sure what to add to this.

It was working and then it stopped.

What if anything changed? Were things unpugged then re-plugged in?

Has this been isolated to a single controller causing the issue?

Dan

[94-302-vert]

Just 1 controller. All were powered off (via the breaker) then this one popped the fuse upon turning the breakers back on. I am trying to determine what this board needs so that I can get the rest of my show up and running.

[Max-Paul]

94-302-vert wrote:

OK, I am going to do this with the contoller in front of me.

Resistance across right fuse (channel 9-16): without fuse: OC @ 2000k ohm setting, with fuse 0.3 ohms OK, I presume you are saying that with the fuse out and with your ohm meter leads, one to one clip and the other lead to the other clip. Not really proving much here if I have it correctly.

Resistance Hot input to hot jumper (with Fuse) right side: 0.3 Ohms Not real sure what you are doing here. Is one probe at the plug? And other is were the jumper terminate back on the board at the far end? Ok, this only proves that you are getting power to where it is suppose to be. I thought we are looking for a short. This test tells us nothing about the problem.

Resistance Hot input to neutrals (right side with fuse): 169.7 Ohms, without fuse, OC @ 2000k ohm setting Ok, now a test to help figure out what is going on. 170 ohms could very well be expected. It sure is not what is causing a 20 amp breaker to trip. BUT, what about the left side? I mean it was wired up in parallel when this all started. With fuse in place, and one lead on either fuse clip and one probe on the neutral tabs (left side to be sure). What kind of resistance do you get?

Resistance Hot input to heat-sink = OC @ 2000k ohm setting Ok, thats a good thing in away. How about the left side?

Never changed a triac on this board. I see no signs of arcing anywhere (good lighting naked eye). Ok, that eliminates that as a possible problem.

What else do I need to look at? I don't want to keep trying to plug this in hoping it will work...

Lets try what lonewolf suggested? Remove the power leads and ohm out the black and white, the black and green leads. And to make things simpler, just drop the "@2000K". We can see that you are familiar with looking for shorts.

Maybe you already said this. But with the fuses in, what was the resistance between the hot and neutral terminals on the board. This is with any jumper between the left and right side removed. Also would like to know with fuses in place and the jumpers installed between left and right side. What the resistance is between the common neutral and the common hot terminals.

Something just aint adding up right in my head and I need to review this one more time..


Can you take pictures and post them of the lower part of your board like Tim did? I think that this might help alot too.

[Salts]

Here's a thought. It keeps tripping the breaker or gfci when u plug in, so stop plugging it in. Have you checked your GFCI or receptacle. GFCI's can go bad. Have you plugged any other devices into this receptactle since this problem has started. Continuing to do the same things that u have been trying is what causes house fires. If u have tried other cords and also find no problems on the board then I would look at the GFCI. Have you plugged this controller into any other circuits to see if the problem is isolated to this location or if it trips other GFCI's as well?

[94-302-vert]

Max-Paul wrote:

94-302-vert wrote:

OK, I am going to do this with the contoller in front of me.

Resistance across right fuse (channel 9-16): without fuse: OC @ 2000k ohm setting, with fuse 0.3 ohms OK, I presume you are saying that with the fuse out and with your ohm meter leads, one to one clip and the other lead to the other clip. Not really proving much here if I have it correctly.

Agree. Just making sure it was clearly stated.

Resistance Hot input to hot jumper (with Fuse) right side: 0.3 Ohms Not real sure what you are doing here. Is one probe at the plug? And other is were the jumper terminate back on the board at the far end? Ok, this only proves that you are getting power to where it is suppose to be. I thought we are looking for a short. This test tells us nothing about the problem.

You are right. But making sure everything is stated as LOR has not been helpful at all to this point.

Resistance Hot input to neutrals (right side with fuse): 169.7 Ohms, without fuse, OC @ 2000k ohm setting Ok, now a test to help figure out what is going on. 170 ohms could very well be expected. It sure is not what is causing a 20 amp breaker to trip. BUT, what about the left side? I mean it was wired up in parallel when this all started. With fuse in place, and one lead on either fuse clip and one probe on the neutral tabs (left side to be sure). What kind of resistance do you get?

Left side is completely disconnected and the right side is still blowing the GFCI. I have tried multiple GFCI's as well including one that is running my static portion of the display.

Resistance Hot input to heat-sink = OC @ 2000k ohm setting Ok, thats a good thing in away. How about the left side?

Same on the left. Although like mentioned above the left side of the board seems OK. Condition happens with the right side being plugged in.

Never changed a triac on this board. I see no signs of arcing anywhere (good lighting naked eye). Ok, that eliminates that as a possible problem.

What else do I need to look at? I don't want to keep trying to plug this in hoping it will work...

Lets try what lonewolf suggested? Remove the power leads and ohm out the black and white, the black and green leads. And to make things simpler, just drop the "@2000K". We can see that you are familiar with looking for shorts.

Maybe you already said this. But with the fuses in, what was the resistance between the hot and neutral terminals on the board.

170 ohms... only on the Right. Did not check the left side.

This is with any jumper between the left and right side removed. Also would like to know with fuses in place and the jumpers installed between left and right side. What the resistance is between the common neutral and the common hot terminals.

I have not been doing really anyhing with the left side but can check this if needed....

Something just aint adding up right in my head and I need to review this one more time..

I know what you mean....

Can you take pictures and post them of the lower part of your board like Tim did? I think that this might help alot too.

No need for pictures the board is sitting on my kitchen table with no wires on it at all at the moment.

Does this bring us any closer or is it really pushing towards me sending in my board for repair?

[94-302-vert]

Salts wrote:

Here's a thought. It keeps tripping the breaker or gfci when u plug in, so stop plugging it in. Have you checked your GFCI or receptacle. GFCI's can go bad. Have you plugged any other devices into this receptactle since this problem has started. Continuing to do the same things that u have been trying is what causes house fires. If u have tried other cords and also find no problems on the board then I would look at the GFCI. Have you plugged this controller into any other circuits to see if the problem is isolated to this location or if it trips other GFCI's as well?

I have tried a total of about 4 GFCI's on different breakers in various ways... to elim the GFCI, Breaker, nad also done the same with the power cord for the same reasons....

[Max-Paul]

Chris,

I think this is getting past anything I can help with via a message board. I think a few others have thrown in the towel. What appears to be a dead short should not be this hard to figure out.

Ya, if it was me, I would contact LOR and make arrangements to send the board in.

Sorry.

[Salts]

Sorry I some how posted the same thing again.

[94-302-vert]

Max-Paul wrote:

Chris,

I think this is getting past anything I can help with via a message board. I think a few others have thrown in the towel. What appears to be a dead short should not be this hard to figure out.

Ya, if it was me, I would contact LOR and make arrangements to send the board in.

Sorry.

I know. I figured that is what would happen. That is why I asked Dan to look at it and his input wasn't really helpful either....

[-klb-]

Not sure if it has been suggested here or not.

Have you hooked one test lead to the right inlet neutral, then probed the left inlet neutral, and all the left outlet neutrals? Then try the reverse. If any one of them reads other than open circuit, you have found the source of your GFCI trips....

[eldoradoboy]

what about the possibility one of the TRIACS is shorted??

I realize the board doesnt pop its onboard fuse, however sometimes a house breaker is faster than a glass fuse....

if he is getting a PoP when he plugs it in.. thats more than just a few milliamps going to ground tripping the GFCI..

-Christopher

[94-302-vert]

eldoradoboy wrote:

what about the possibility one of the TRIACS is shorted??

I realize the board doesnt pop its onboard fuse, however sometimes a house breaker is faster than a glass fuse....

if he is getting a PoP when he plugs it in.. thats more than just a few milliamps going to ground tripping the GFCI..

-Christopher

Could the GFCI be tripping simply because of the amperage inrush?

[eldoradoboy]

a GFCI is going to trip if it finds amperage Lost to ground... a Breaker will trip because of an over-current situation....

a short to ground would cause current lost to ground and trip a GFCI...

but from what I understand this controller was tripping a Breaker that was not GFCI, correct?

-Christopher

[94-302-vert]

eldoradoboy wrote:

a GFCI is going to trip if it finds amperage Lost to ground... a Breaker will trip because of an over-current situation....

a short to ground would cause current lost to ground and trip a GFCI...

but from what I understand this controller was tripping a Breaker that was not GFCI, correct?

-Christopher

Correct. A standard breaker wired to a GFCI. If I plug into the GFCI live it blows the breaker and gives a heck of a spark. If I plug into a dead GFCI then reset it, only the GFCI trips...



My though is that maybe the inrush of current is great enough upon reset of the GFCI that the GFCI trips automatically.



Now the three leads on a triac, how would I test it without powering it up?



Sorry but I am a Mechanical Engineer and not very electrinics oriented at all... I can solder and do wiring but PC boards and the components on them are a mystery to me...