DLH lites Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 Thanks Gents for the info. I do use the child protective caps on all the female connectors as you suggested before. This year I found several vampire plugs that were full of water ,they were in the middle of the big hedge well off the ground . The only thing laying on the ground was a lot of long spt1 cables in a bundle across the drive way. I do have a question , I had three controllers into a ac strip plugged into one GFCI once I moved one to a none GFCI outlet things got better . All of the lites are LED ,could three controllers just cause a slight enough imbalance to trip the GFCI. The fourth controller was into its own GFCI and never triped and was controlling four wire trees with c9's sitting on pavers on the ground . Any more suggestions would be great. Of course the night of our Christmas party it poured and no lites for the first two hours then it all came back on. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DLH lites said: Thanks Gents for the info. I do use the child protective caps on all the female connectors as you suggested before. This year I found several vampire plugs that were full of water ,they were in the middle of the big hedge well off the ground . The only thing laying on the ground was a lot of long spt1 cables in a bundle across the drive way. I do have a question , I had three controllers into a ac strip plugged into one GFCI once I moved one to a none GFCI outlet things got better . All of the lites are LED ,could three controllers just cause a slight enough imbalance to trip the GFCI. The fourth controller was into its own GFCI and never triped and was controlling four wire trees with c9's sitting on pavers on the ground . Any more suggestions would be great. Of course the night of our Christmas party it poured and no lites for the first two hours then it all came back on. David Those vampire plugs must not have sealed too well. I have several on a few things that I've had to change out bad plugs on. But one suggestion would be to get some of the liquid Flex Seal product and brush that around the areas where there would be a thin line gap. Where the top slides over the vampire teeth in the bottom part. You could try lightly coating the area on top of the bottom portion, then slide the top over it, but this may make it difficult, or impossible to ever take the vampire plug apart again, and may require cutting the plug off to replace it. If just coated around the outer edges lightly enough to form a nice rubber water-tight/water-proof seal around where the top meets the bottom should be sufficient to keep water out of the vampire plug. Also lightly coat where the cord enters the vampire plug. Then you'd just have to use an X-Acto knife to cut the plug open again to replace it if it ever went bad. These Flex Seal products work great for repairing frayed electrical cords that have been nicked on one side down to the wire or even both sides if each wire is coated separately, then coat the entire thing to seal it. Sure has saved me having to buy new extension cords that have gotten damaged by some means over the years. Works great for C7 and C9 sockets that have the end wiring exposed to seal them up and make them water-proof and water-tight too. These Flex Seal products have been great for saving my display since they came out with them. And they are usually available at Home Depot Stores. Edited January 15, 2020 by Orville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcktpwrd Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 3 hours ago, DLH lites said: I do have a question , I had three controllers into a ac strip plugged into one GFCI once I moved one to a none GFCI outlet things got better . David I would say this is most likely the issue and similar to the issues we have had with our display. I also have had three controllers plugged into the same outlet. That is why I am going to be adding on additional GFCI outlets so I can spread the GFCI load out. As stated before there is a very small amount of voltage leak allowed before the GFCI trips and does its job. We are talking about milliamps, so a very tiny amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioguy1007 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 At one point in my career I worked with a team that designed a GFCI circuit breaker. The specification for them is that should not trip for leakage less than 4 mA but must trip for leakage greater than 6 mA. So if you have 3 "legs" (controllers) off one GFCI they add together for the leakage. One leg might have 1 mA, the other two 2 mA, having a total of 5 mA. That may or may not trip the GFCI depending on the sensitivity of that device. Now if each was on its own GFCI outlet none would trip as they are all below the 4 mA minimum trip point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 6 hours ago, radioguy1007 said: At one point in my career I worked with a team that designed a GFCI circuit breaker. The specification for them is that should not trip for leakage less than 4 mA but must trip for leakage greater than 6 mA. So if you have 3 "legs" (controllers) off one GFCI they add together for the leakage. One leg might have 1 mA, the other two 2 mA, having a total of 5 mA. That may or may not trip the GFCI depending on the sensitivity of that device. Now if each was on its own GFCI outlet none would trip as they are all below the 4 mA minimum trip point. I find this very interesting since I run 9 Controllers off 1 GFCI outlet. 5 older CCB-100D RGB Controllers and 4 older V2 CTB16PC Controllers and have been doing it since 2010 and never had any trip issues except the 1st year, but that was due to not capping off the Female plugs with Child Proof Outlet caps and water getting inside those. I also cap off any unused channel dangles on the CTB16PC units. So either mine is not as sensitive, to this or it was built with a higher threshold for tripping the circuit off. It did trip once this year, but that was due to a nicked power cord, nicked just enough to lightly expose the wire on both sides, and when it rained and got wet, it tripped the GFCI off, repaired with Flex Seal and no more issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioguy1007 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Your CCB controllers use a DC power supply which effectively stops any AC leakage path at that point. For the CTB16's your treatment of those light strings (didn't you say you treated every bulb socket with dielectric silicone in another thread?) really helps. Capping the ends not so much, but again using dielectric coats the metal and keeps water from coming in contact with the electrical contacts. Water is the enemy here for false trips. You also may have a GFCI outlet on the upper end of the trip point range (6 mA). I assume you do test it using the built-in test button on a regular basis to make sure it is still functioning. If it is still the same one since 2010 it may not be 100% functional. Here in Wisconsin my average outdoor life for a GFCI is about 5 years. It contains electronics, and those circuits can also corrode and quit working or change sensitivity over time due to moisture intrusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, radioguy1007 said: Your CCB controllers use a DC power supply which effectively stops any AC leakage path at that point. For the CTB16's your treatment of those light strings (didn't you say you treated every bulb socket with dielectric silicone in another thread?) really helps. Capping the ends not so much, but again using dielectric coats the metal and keeps water from coming in contact with the electrical contacts. Water is the enemy here for false trips. You also may have a GFCI outlet on the upper end of the trip point range (6 mA). I assume you do test it using the built-in test button on a regular basis to make sure it is still functioning. If it is still the same one since 2010 it may not be 100% functional. Here in Wisconsin my average outdoor life for a GFCI is about 5 years. It contains electronics, and those circuits can also corrode and quit working or change sensitivity over time due to moisture intrusion. Yes, dielectric grease. As for the GFCI, test button still does its job. It is only used during holiday times, so it's not out in the weather but only for a few months of the year, and the outside outlet it is plugged into is also protected by a GFCI in the house since that outside outlet is on the bathroom/master bedroom circuit. Outside one when tripped only affects the display area and all that's plugged into it and the extra outlets that it controls. So it's still 100% functional. But I am planning to replace it this year in 2020 since it is basically 10 years old. But it still functions per the test button. Almost forgot, I know the output is 5VDC to the light strands on the RGB Controllers, but they still plug directly into an 120V AC outlet to power them. So I figured that would be a portion of the full load on top of the CTB16PC's since they all are powered by 120VAC and all my CTB16PC's use the dual cords as well. Edited January 17, 2020 by Orville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 The Test button is a "Must Trip" value. (and the test should be performed with no other loads attached to 'protected ( including downstream) outlets. as their leakages might otherwise help trip an under performing (fail) test. If you don't have Access issues. Put the GFCI inside and wire it to the 'Outdoor downstream outlet (BTW They now have corrosion resistant outlets for outdoor locations at the bigger Home stores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 hours ago, TheDucks said: The Test button is a "Must Trip" value. (and the test should be performed with no other loads attached to 'protected ( including downstream) outlets. as their leakages might otherwise help trip an under performing (fail) test. If you don't have Access issues. Put the GFCI inside and wire it to the 'Outdoor downstream outlet (BTW They now have corrosion resistant outlets for outdoor locations at the bigger Home stores When I test it, it is plugged into a live NON GFCI outlet, since it is wired with a 3 wire grounded cord to be plugged into an outlet to power it. So there is nothing plugged into the GFCI itself when tested. The one I bought stated it was weatherproof and corrosion resistant at the time. And I've taken it apart out of it's outdoor weatherproof box to make sure all contacts are still tight and haven't had any corrosion issues with it or the wiring ro it. Just took it apart after Christmas tear down and everything still looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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