Demo version save not able to Copy in licensed version?

[Ed P]

I installed a Demo version of LOR 2.38 at work since my work computer is subject to re-image of the whole computer disk system at any time I did not want to waste a license there.

Today I took a sequence from my home computer and played with it at work then saved it with Demo version after some changes now after I took it back home with my Licensed version and try to copy a section of a channel sequence I get the following pop up error box titled "Cannot Copy" in box the error is "Data from encrypted sequence cannot be copied except on the sequence's originating computer."

I tried doing Save As to another name on licensed LOR home computer but then this copy also gives this error. I think I just hosed my sequence because I overlayed it with same name from the Demo version. (That was my bad.)

But it is no good to work with a sequence when you cannot copy anything from it.

Is this one of the restriction on the Demo version. Very strange, I guess the Demo version will not be any use to me. I would have hoped anything done in Demo version would then be able to be used in my licensed home computer and become unencrypted when saved there.

Any one else experience this problem.

[Guest wbottomley]

Ed, I would wait until Bob chimes in on this thread. Keep that sequence as he may have a clue what's causing this.

[cmoore60]

In other threads it has been discussed. The Demo version saves the files in an encryptied format. The files can only be unlocked on the computer they were written on as I recall.

Chuck

[bob]

Is this one of the restriction on the Demo version.

Yes, and also of the "Basic" version (which also saves files encrypted).

"Basic Plus", "Standard" and "Advanced" do not have this restriction.

I would have hoped anything done in Demo version would then be able to be used in my licensed home computer and become unencrypted when saved there.

If you activate your license on your computer at work, next time you save that file on your work computer, it will become unencrypted, and you will be able to copy from it on your home computer.

[Ed P]

bob wrote:

Is this one of the restriction on the Demo version.

Yes, and also of the "Basic" version (which also saves files encrypted).

"Basic Plus", "Standard" and "Advanced" do not have this restriction.

I would have hoped anything done in Demo version would then be able to be used in my licensed home computer and become unencrypted when saved there.

If you activate your license on your computer at work, next time you save that file on your work computer, it will become unencrypted, and you will be able to copy from it on your home computer.

Well that really stinks and is not at all clear on the Software feature page on LOR website.

So anyone with a Demo or Basic version can not share their sequences to another person. They can but the receiving person just will not be able to modify them in any reasonable way by copying and pasting any part of it, even to another non-encrypted sequence on licensed version.

I do not want to put a license copy at work since I may have to uninstall at any time and waste the license. I guess I'll just only use the Demo version at work to look at sequences and make notes for future changes to do at home.

Unfortunately I ruined my sequence, thank goodness I had not gone too far with it and can re-start from beginning at home.

In another thread you said: bob wrote:

Your sequences, if encrypted, are not lost. First of all, LOR can read and use encrypted sequences just fine. The difference is the way that they're stored on your disk, not your ability to use them.

The big gotcha on this is only if everything is done on the same computer apparently.

[bob]

I do not want to put a license copy at work since I may have to uninstall at any time and waste the license.

The purpose of all this -- the limit to the number of computers you can install it on, the encrypted save files in Demo and Basic, and the copy/paste limitation in Demo and Basic -- is to prevent various forms of piracy. The purpose is not to hinder our valid, licensed customers. So:

I would suggest simply activating your license on the other computer.

If, at some later date, that computer is wiped out, just reactivate it again.

There are a couple things to keep in mind here:

First, "activating" is not the same as "using up a license seat". When you reactivate on the same computer, if our software can recognize that it is the same computer, that does not cause you to use another license seat.

Second, it's possible that our software won't recognize it as the same computer, in which case it will cause you to use another license seat. But if our software ever refuses your activation because it thinks you've used up all your license seats, and you know that you haven't really installed it on five computers, just give a call to LOR Customer Support, and they will take care of the situation for you.

So, again, I would suggest just activating. It's not our intention to hinder you, and if we inadvertently do, we'll try our best to make things right.

[Ed P]

bob wrote:

The purpose of all this -- the limit to the number of computers you can install it on, the encrypted save files in Demo and Basic, and the copy/paste limitation in Demo and Basic -- is to prevent various forms of piracy. The purpose is not to hinder our valid, licensed customers.

I understand the 5 seat limit helps with software piracy but I don't see how the users's work product from your software may only be shared with another LOR user if it is from an upper level license helps with piracy.

Rather it infringes with the sharing of sequences that this community is noted for and how some people started by getting your demo version and giving the sequence to some one who had the hardware to try. But most times I bet those receiving the file modified the sequence using a copy / paste command before running it.

The Demo and Basic version does not run lights or only a limited amount of channels. This would seem to be the real controlling factor to me.

bob wrote:

So, again, I would suggest just activating. It's not our intention to hinder you, and if we inadvertently do, we'll try our best to make things right.

I will consider this but my Tech staff could come in my cube tomorrow and give me a new computer to use. It is unlikely but the possiblity exists. And then I would need to call you guys and try to get a license back.

I am aware of the way it works now so I will not let this happen again. It actually may prevent me from getting into trouble by not sequencing at work!

BUT I suggest the software page be changed because the following is clearly not completely accurate!

This download is the complete S2 Software Suite. It will run with or without a S2 License Key. If you do not have a License Key the software will operate in Demo Mode. In Demo Mode, you have the features of the Basic License with one exception: you will not be able to actually control lights.

Thanks for the information. I and others are now more aware of how this works.

[rwertz]

I think LOR should give you a free controller for your inconvenience

[Ed P]

rwertz wrote:

I think LOR should give you a free controller for your inconvenience

That's ridiculous, maybe just a new sequence.

I don't feel wronged by LOR but I do think that the encrypted sequence is not spelled out well on the software page. I believe on chart comparison encrypted translates to full XML data storage.

If I bought a Starter package and found out I could not share my sequences I might feel wronged.

I just ruined the beginnings of a new sequence because I did not realize if I save it with the Demo version in an encrypted state then it is only useful on the computer I saved it.

No where on the software page does it state that this is the case.

I thought encrypted just meant that I could not look at the sequence file with an XML type editor.

And if I understand what Bob is saying now my impression is the Basic level licence sequences cannot be shared to another LOR user. This still confuses me. It seems to me someone starting with the Basic license would be limited to doing all my sequences on one computer. They may be able to run on a show computer but don't try to sequence on your 5 licenses.

It is all moot for me because I have an Advanced license and will now stick to only sequencing on my licensed home computers.

[rwertz]

Just giving you a hard time Ed

So are we saying that an encrypted file can only be unlocked on the original computer it was encrypted on (once Basic Plus or higher is installed)? If that's the case, it would render the sequences useless if the computer died.

[beaker020]

I am really not happy about this. I have often sequenced on a demo version of the software when I have been away from home, using a shared computer or using someone elses computer. I carry my sequences, music and the demo version on a memory stick and sequence wherever I find a computer. This is unacceptable. This must be changed. This does hinder me, unintentionally or not, and I have a hard time believing this was not anticipated.

[Ed P]

rwertz wrote:

So are we saying that an encrypted file can only be unlocked on the original computer it was encrypted on (once Basic Plus or higher is installed)? If that's the case, it would render the sequences useless if the computer died.

No, not exactly.

If you save a sequence with the Demo version on Computer A and then take that sequence to Computer B with an Advanced license, it will open fine, I believe it may even control the lights fine.

BUT on Computer B you use the Select Tool highlight a part of the sequence, Copy, and move to another channel, Paste and you get DATA COPY error. You cannot paste from encrypted sequence on any other computer than the original computer.

If you can live without Copy and Pasting a sequence you will be fine.

I am only sure about what I did I made sequence with Advance, took to Demo, modified and saved, took back to Advanced, now no longer have Copy / Paste ability on encrypted sequence on the Advance computer. My sequence looks fine I just cannot modify it now using Copy / Paste.

Your question about a computer dying is a good one. I guess you would lose modification ability with them because you would need to open and save on orginal computer with Basic Plus.

[LightORamaDan]

Let me explain why we have the encryption in the demo and in the basic and with your feedback I may re-think things.

Another company came out with a version of hardware and then later some software that was LOR compatible. It turned out that the software had a number of problems. The result was that some people took the LOR demo software, created their sequences, then imported their sequences into the "other" software and ran their show...

When I found out about that, it sort of left a bad taste in my mouth and I wanted to somehow protect the investment made in the software. Because the demo is free and in most cases the basic software is free (with a starter package), I wanted protection from that happening again. Perhaps that was a bit selfish on my part.

At the same time, I wanted the sequence file to be an open format that was easy for people to access if they so wanted to.... Thus the dilemma; I found myself in a catch22 situation.

My solution was that we made the sequence files a standard, easy to parse (XML) format. And we added the encryption on the "free" versions of the software so that they could not be imported or modified by non-LOR software. The reason we made it such that advanced versions of the LOR software could not decrypt files( that were not created on that same machine) was to prevent a single copy of advanced LOR being used in a coop situation to decode encrypted LOR files.


Dan

[Steven]

I work at a software company, so I'm familiar with these issues. The current LOR solution sounds like the best way to solve the problem with 1 exception, and that is Ed's case where he can't run a licensed version on his work computer.

Here's a possible solution: Make a USB Flash Drive version.

In this case, the software can be licensed to the serial number on the USB Flash Drive, which is supposed to be, and usually is, unique. Ed could install that version on a flash drive, use one of the 5 license activations, and take that flash drive to work.

An added advantage would be that he wouldn't have to install the software on his work computer, and could even use it in an Internet cafe, where software installation is not possible.

[-klb-]

How about having the demo version accept a license key for the purposes of encryption only? It still acts like the demo version, and never contacts LOR about the key, but it encrypts the saved files in a way that any licensed copy with that specified license key can open with no restrictions?

I think that idea makes sense, but I just realized that a three day weekend is nearly here, and this is making my head hurt...

[Ed P]

LightORamaDan wrote:

...

When I found out about that, it sort of left a bad taste in my mouth and I wanted to somehow protect the investment made in the software. Because the demo is free and in most cases the basic software is free (with a starter package), I wanted protection from that happening again. Perhaps that was a bit selfish on my part.

...

Dan

Dan,

I completely understand you wanting to protect your software. If you want to keep your current Demo / Basic plan here is my suggestions

First if the Demo / Basic reads in an unencrypted version it should warn you that by saving in the Demo / Basic version it will create a Protected version not easily changed or shared. It would be best if a different file extention was used for encrypted sequence. (I did discover the file does have text message imbedded saying it was via Limited Software.)


Second the upper licenses should be able to read in an encrypted file and modify it and then just save it back as encrypted. So if I chose to modify sequences from Demo with Advanced I could still go back and forth between Demo and Licensed but it will always be encrypted.

Third, Basic on up should be able to control hardware with the encrypted file for the authorized number of channels.

These changes would better than the current situation. Most important is WARN me I'm about to wreck my Unencrypted sequence file.

I've tried many Demo version and not many Developers let you use the Demo forever or it has crippled functionaliy. It was just a big gotcha for me. And I can see people with Demo / Basic sharing sequences and then it not working for the receiving user and they'll be coming here to this forum or your Tech Support for help with WHY?

Thanks for responding and listening.

[Ed P]

-klb- wrote:

How about having the demo version accept a license key for the purposes of encryption only? It still acts like the demo version, and never contacts LOR about the key, but it encrypts the saved files in a way that any licensed copy with that specified license key can open with no restrictions?

I think that idea makes sense, but I just realized that a three day weekend is nearly here, and this is making my head hurt...

I like this idea as a solution too.

BUT still need DEMO to WARN if it does not have a license key and read in a unencrypted file.

[doublea]

I myself have ran into the limitations of the licensing software.

I go through computers like water, I test and build my rigs. I also had vista crap out on me, and now I'm beta testing windows 7, My main rig is always changing, and because my show requires two computers I went through my 5 seats fast.

Dan was very nice, within a few short hours of sending an email it was all fixed. As always LOR respects its consumers. Seriously customer service like this does not exist like this anywhere else PERIOD!

I will say I'm a bit more careful, I don't have lor on all of my computers, which I used to. Currently its on, My laptop, My Show pc, My trigger pc & My main show pc, My old show PC. I can't tell you how happy I am LOR gives us 5 seats.

You think I'm crazy for using more than 5 computers..... Maybe I am

Adobe gives me 2 seats with my CS4 software, cant tell you how many times I have been on the phone with them....

I can't Blame LOR for protecting itself from others modifying demo software (very uncool.) Just remember this minor inconvenience is something that I think is for the better good overall.

[dumbname99]

I too just got bit by this. I have to travel a bunch for my job, and have to get loaner laptops. I had worked on several of my sequences, accounting for dozens of hours using a demo version. I finally get home, and you know what happened. I asked for the loaner laptop back, and they have already reimaged it, so no luck there. now i'm stuck with several half done sequences as I can't use them as they have lost functionality i need as I use copy/paste a ton in my work flow.

Yes, I did still get the original laptop, installed a demo, activated (blowing a license) but it didn't recognize it as the same computer.... i've blown a license as well now.....

There has to be a happy medium between protecting LOR's rights and keeping it's customers happy, and right now I am not happy. Nothing like ruining your sequences to put you in a bad mood.....

There needs to be a way to unlock sequences when you don't have access to the originating computer.....

[cotrill]

I just ran into this while preparing to go out of town. I have LOR installed on 2 pcs and 2 laptops. Only 2 of those have the activated version the others are demo. I burn through a few comps a year and don't want to waste licenses. Now I cannot sequence while I am gone unless I use another activated license b/c when I get back I won't be able to use them on the other PC's.