robongar Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I've often seen issues on this forum related to blown " Triacs". What are they? What causes them to blow?Is there a way of protecting them? Edited January 3, 2015 by robongar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) ok, to answer the first part of my question I got the answer from Google.So, I'm guessing a short ( e.g wet from rain) will cause them to short or blow. Now not knowing too much about this electronics stuff. Doesn't the 15 amp fast blow fuse protect the "Triacs"? Edited January 3, 2015 by robongar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmadrive Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 NO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 That's what I like, an uncomplicated answer. Thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) So in short. Will "GFCI's" before the controller, protect them? Edited January 3, 2015 by robongar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viennaxmas Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 So in short. Will "GFCI's" before the controller, protect them? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 So before you ask. Can you protect them? was your question. And the answer is NO in part. Dont over load them. Just try to keep critters out of the box so that they can not short the gate to a hot trace. Keep the boxes vertical so that the rain can drain properly. Pray and have some spare Triacs on hand and learn how to remove them from the board and install a new one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Thanks very much for that advice.I know I'm safe with keeping them dry and mounted upright.So other than the causes you've listed for them to fail, will they fail if there is a short in one of my outside connections? Eg water gets into an extension lead socket. I did have a short causing a fuse to blow. But, after isolating the problem. All went well after that.You suggest I look into leaning how to change the Triacs. I think I've identified the Triacs mounted down each side of the board, bolted to a heat dispensing aluminum plate, with a little heat sink. Numbered T1 - T8 & T9 - T16.However, I can't see any value on them or numbers. Although I can see 8A per channel on the board.Please can somebody tell me where I can get some spare Triacs and maybe a part number or what I need to be asking for.Lastly, other than the channel not working correctly with the faulty Triacs, would I be able to identify the faulty one by looking at it? Eg, burnt, or changed color.Once again, thank you to all helping me ( and others ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Leon Forbes Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I will attempt to pass what little bit information I think I know, first a triac is a transistor that is made up of two diodes either pnp or npn depending on how they are to be used for. voltage or no voltage applied to the base of the transistor opens of closes the gate between the emitter and cathode allowing voltage to flow. Most transistors short out between the emitter and cathode but do sometimes short to base, sort of like a capacitor goes shorted resisters go open. The biggest fail rate is due to overload not to say shorting them does not damage them it will. Over the past 7 or 8 years of doing displays with LOR I have never lost a triac in a LOR unit I think it's because I have and do check my load with a Kill-0-watt meter or amp meter and also insure I do not have any shorted lights. Water will damage any unit so keep them as dry as possible, as for the lights their self I have never taped the ends nor tried to seal everything up I don't wrap or tape the plugs just keep them out of standing water. Just use plain common séance and keep them out of standing water. Now I know their are those here that have a much better knowledge of these matters so chime in if you want and give information to help him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_moody Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 You can order replacement triacs from somewhere like Mouser or Digikey. I ordered from Mouserhttp://www.mouser.co...511-BTA16-600BW 10 pcs with shipping was $19.89 - I ordered 10 just becasue some of my controllers are getting older and wanted to have some spares on hand. Hope this helps... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbaker4 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIAC Also - please note how they describe using a snubber.... "(usually of the RC or RCL type) between MT1 and MT2" Not across the load. Edited January 4, 2015 by wbaker4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 You can order replacement triacs from somewhere like Mouser or Digikey. I ordered from Mouserhttp://www.mouser.co...511-BTA16-600BW 10 pcs with shipping was $19.89 - I ordered 10 just becasue some of my controllers are getting older and wanted to have some spares on hand. Hope this helps... BobThanks Bob, much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIACAlso - please note how they describe using a snubber.... "(usually of the RC or RCL type) between MT1 and MT2" Not across the load.Thanks wbaker4, I guess that's another can of worms.. i saw something about snubber on another thread. Edited January 4, 2015 by robongar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 so no disrespect to Bob here, I have no problem replacing one for one and putting it all back together correctly. If I have too. But, all this talk of snubbers and what they do. I feel vertically challenged, it went straight over my head no matter how many times I read it.So, looking to see if there is a supplier closer to home (Canada) the postage for 10 would have been 1.5 x the total product price.It seems there are both types. With and without snubbers. So what one do I need, With or without a snubber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_moody Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 No offence taken ... The part I gave you is the direct replacement for the LOR triacs used. Part number is from the LOR parts book..Can't do anything about Canadian postage ... sorry ... And finally ... The snubber issue regarding the triacs is a moot point in this case ..LOR controllers are NOT designed for inductive loads. As stated in the Wiki reference, snubbers are used for inductive loads such as fans, motors etc ... I think maybe the snubber conversations you are remembering might be in regards to placing a resistor at the end of the CAT cable to eliminate signal reflections. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 No offence taken ... The part I gave you is the direct replacement for the LOR triacs used. Part number is from the LOR parts book..Can't do anything about Canadian postage ... sorry ... And finally ... The snubber issue regarding the triacs is a moot point in this case ..LOR controllers are NOT designed for inductive loads. As stated in the Wiki reference, snubbers are used for inductive loads such as fans, motors etc ... I think maybe the snubber conversations you are remembering might be in regards to placing a resistor at the end of the CAT cable to eliminate signal reflections. BobThanks Bob, you've made it quite clear now, quoting it's the correct one for LOR. Once again, thank you to all that have helped with this inquiry.Let me be the first to wish you all a Merry Christmas 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_moody Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 You are very welcome .. glad i could help... Merry Christmas to you and yours as well... Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robongar Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 However, just one question didn't get answerd. If for example, an extension cord got wet inside that created a short. Could that cause a Triac to blow? Eg dead short causing the Triacs to overload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_moody Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yes, a dead short will blow a triac. A simple, although sometimes frustrating, solution is to run your controllers through a GFCI.The milliamps it takes to trip a GFCI will USUALLY trip the GFCI long before you can exceed the 16 amp rating on the triacs.This is not to say you wont blow one. I had half of one fail this year causing one channel to stay on at less than 100%. GFCI's, fuses and all the worry in the world wont keep a component from failing at some point in time. Replace your bad triac, test your repair and get ready for next year. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 No offence taken ... The part I gave you is the direct replacement for the LOR triacs used. Part number is from the LOR parts book..Can't do anything about Canadian postage ... sorry ... And finally ... The snubber issue regarding the triacs is a moot point in this case ..LOR controllers are NOT designed for inductive loads. As stated in the Wiki reference, snubbers are used for inductive loads such as fans, motors etc ... I think maybe the snubber conversations you are remembering might be in regards to placing a resistor at the end of the CAT cable to eliminate signal reflections. BobThe resistor at the end of the Cat 5 cable Bob is called a terminator. I believe our friend is confusing with the resistor put on the end of a string(s) of LED lights to help with the fading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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