JeffF Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 ???If you are into saving money then maybe don't get into this hobby every year it costs me!Preach on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince4xmas Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 9,000 led and rgb totals only 10.7 amps with all lights on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portcity_gt Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think its dumb not to try to save money no matter how expensive the hobby.Not all of us have disposable income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Exactly portcity.....read my post above and see how much I saved when I bought mini's and passed up LED's. It was thousands that I could then use to pay my electric bill for the next 20yrs or buy more controllers....either way I am way ahead by buying mini's and so could you be. Do not buy LED's for the sole purpose of thinking you are saving money cause you are not...even if you pay $2 per string (and once again I know you did not) it takes almost 2 strings to equal the same number of lights in a string of mini's.I could go on and on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6058 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Exactly portcity.....read my post above and see how much I saved when I bought mini's and passed up LED's. It was thousands that I could then use to pay my electric bill for the next 20yrs or buy more controllers....either way I am way ahead by buying mini's and so could you be. Do not buy LED's for the sole purpose of thinking you are saving money cause you are not...even if you pay $2 per string (and once again I know you did not) it takes almost 2 strings to equal the same number of lights in a string of mini's.I could go on and on..... I was forced into LEDs. Minis don't always do the job. I needed either C7 or C9s in one area and having only one 30 amp plug for outdoor use in a rent house I kept tripping the breaker. It was either scale back or do the only work around LEDs. I have (had I don't live there anymore, but same situation different zip code) more than tripled light count and added twice the controllers and only tripped the breakers once in an ice storm. Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I did the same thing for the same basic reasons with my C7's.....the math is for different reasons when you get to the screw in bulbs. The incans are 5 watts/bulb vs less than .5 watt/bulb and they can be purchased for a dollar/bulb or less. Do the math on C7's and the "savings" occurs much much sooner but keep in mind the switch was to free up power....savings on your electric bill was a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffF Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have ~350-400 C7 yellow and red LEDs and I lose more of those each year than I do of the C7 incandescent clears I use. I did the LED switchover because the coating on the lights would wear after two or three seasons so I am still ahead of the game... but I am very disappointed in the failure rate of the C7 LEDs.I have tried three different vendors and just like my strobes, I write off the dead ones off as being due to our weather(lots of rain filling sockets and crevices and then sub 20F weather freezing said water). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulXmas Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Archer how big is your breaker box?For 100,000 lights I think you would need 400 AMPs just for the lights.If you were on all LEDs you would use about 10% so your bill would only be $15Something doesn't sound right but I'm not an electrician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I have a 100 amp sub-panel in my garage. Each breaker controls 1 receptacle located at various locations outside. I have no extension cords running thru doors or windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Oh, I forgot to address your 10% comment....you have to read my post from a few days ago but it goes something like this...my mini's cost me $2,000.00 for 100,000 lights. The same number of LED's wold have cost me $5,000.00 on sale and I mean at rock bottom bargain prices (been there done that). That means I saved $3,000.00 by using mini's. My electric bill is $150 more than normal so divide $150 into the $3,000.00 and it means it would take 20yrs before the LED's actually started saving money but to get technical it would take longer because in that 20yrs the LED's cost me $600.00 to operate so 24yrs is more like it.I'll be more than willing to answer more questions if you have any! If you can show me where I am wrong in my calcultions I would greatly appreciate it. kevinkolak.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightssOnCedar Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Now Archer you know those incans are not going to last 20yrs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Point well taken.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Please don't take me wrong...LED's are the way to go but don't buy them for the sole purpose of lowering your electric bill. LED's are still too new for any of us to talk about how much they save us because of their COST as outlined in previous posts above. They offer way more beneficial stuff like the total load on your breakers, longevity, color retention and dependability to mention a few.....lower electric bills are a side affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulXmas Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Archer why not buy them for the sole purpose of lowering your electric bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstorms Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 My electric bill went from $258 in Nov to $220 in Dec. Using a watt meter my entire display (with pixels at all white) my consumption is 11 amps and 1300 watts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Paul.....do what you want but if you look at it from an investment, and let's face it it is quite an investment, it makes more money sense to go the overall cheapest route and still get the results you were after. If you loaned me a sum of money and I told you I would get it back to you in 3 yrs and pay you a small bonus every year there after you would probably be fine with it. However, if I told you it would be 20yrs until I had you paid off and you get the yearly bonus you would tell me to take a hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Arch Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 OK Archer - hang on & I'll try to make you a LED believer.At least twice in this thread you've challenged "Somebody please tell me where my math/logic is wrong/flawed." I've looked the other way long enough. I'll take the challenge and show you how to achieve the investment you desire. - - so here we go..Mostly your math is good, just incomplete in your analysis. You just didn't focus on time enough. First off - a little wrong math; your post states 1428 LED boxes at $4 is $4998.00. The correct math is 1428 LED boxes at $4 would be $5712.00. Now you are thinking that this furthers your point that LED's are too expensive to pan out. So let's continue to blow that theory up.Upfront cost:Most LEDs are rated at 20,000 hrs. Most minis are rated at 3000 hrs. So you will buy minis 6+ times before the LEDs burn out (20,000/3,000=6.667), and that's if you don't bump minis on something like the sidewalk. So your purchase cost of minis is really $12 per fixture unit ($2 x 6 = $12) for the same life as an unit of LEDs. You are spending 3 times as much on the same usage per feature. $5712 in LEDs compared to ($2000 x 6) $12000 in minis. $12000 - $5712 = you spent $6288 more to purchase minis over time than if you purchased LEDs.Electricity cost:Your area of the country has $.08 to $.11 kwh costs per PPL. I'll use $.10 for this example as easier math.Minis use on ave .408 watts per lamp. .408 x 100,000 lamps is 40,800 watts. Times .001 to get kilowatts per hour (KWH) = 40.8. 40.8KWH x 5 hours per day burn is 204. 204 x 30 days ave season is 6120KWH. 6120 x $0.10 = $612.00 dollars seasonal electricity for minis.LEDs use on ave .069 watts. x 100,000 = 6900. 6900 x .001 = 6.9. 6.9 x 5 = 34.5. 34.5 x 30 = 1035. 1035 x $0.10 = $103.50 dollars seasonal electricity.LEDs save $508.50 per year in electricity costs.But wait, we enthusiasts dance our lights where they are not always on as in the above example. I'll say only on 20% of the time for this argument. (You would have to monitor your own show to fill in this math more efficiently.) But at 20% on, you still save $101.70 per year in electricity costs LED vs. minis.Purchase price savings per total units was $6288.00. Electricity savings per year is $101.70. 20,000 hour product life divided by 150 hours seasonal burn x only 20% for dancing on = 667 years burn test. 667 x $101.70 = $67,833.90.Total savings = Electricity savings of $67,833.90 plus purchase price savings of $ 6288.00 = grand total savings of $74,121.90, not even factoring in the increase in energy costs over the next 600 years.LEDs rule. LEDs rule. LEDs rule.. And as with Kevin's statements -I'm sure somebody can prove me wrong...But wasn't this fun? :P - Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 LOL....my math was flawed but my logic is unshakable. I AM A BELIEVER IN LED'S....I just can't afford them for the reason of reducing my power consumption. In my math I used 70 LED's/strand and that was an error too. It is actually 60 per strand and that means I need 1,666 strands at a fantasy $4/strand. I'll let you do that math but you get my drift.....the savings is even greater.My show is on 5 hrs a night. Using your numbers it means my mini's are on for 1hr per day (20%) for 40 days/yr. 3000hr life (your number) ÷ 40hrs/yr = we are both dead.You continue to buy your LED's to save your electric bill and I'll buy my mini's and then more controllers with the savings. I have 32 in my display and not done yet....lol.Keep in mind, the next generation of lighting is already being perfected (laser) which will lower the cost of LED's and that's when I'll convert my whole dosplay. Did you research what the new laser technology will be capable of? 1 laser 1/10 the size of an LED will light your entire house for 1/3 the cost of LED's. I'll let the engineers figure out how to make Christmas lights out of them.You need not try to convert me to LED....you need to lower the cost and then get in line behind me buying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Arch Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Good stuff, isn't it? I had to sleep at a Holiday Inn last night just to recover from the math on LEDs. Sure not about to attempt a Laser math reply. Incandescent, LED, Laser - Kevin, however you light up your mega tree it is always one of the most unique I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Messer Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Ha. Everyone of us that puts on a show are called Deep Pockets but the viewers.. This years show I will replace a lot of Incands with RGB's for a full matrix across the roof. This is going to be a fun year if I pull it off. My 200 amp services sings a tune at some parts in my show. Edited January 10, 2015 by Jeff Messer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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