I love LOR...but

[Denis Chaput]

[PaulXmas]

VirtualXmas wrote:

Frank Picozzi wrote

Well maybe when you're finished playing "everyone look how much I know and how smart I am" you might go outside and set up a Christmas display.

Maybe if you had half a clue and stopped to think about what I'm saying, you might actually agree with me.

Instead of the object your post, and most of the others, seems to be to get cheap shots in.

It will be interesting to see the day when something happens and YOU can't use the software and hardware. Something about "I told you so" comes to mind.

In the mean time, you can continue walking around and bumping into walls.

OPEN your eyes !

"There's none so blind as those who will not see."

If you are soooooo much smarter that us then write your own software and move on!

It is clear you don't want our help.

[rwertz]

VirtualXmas wrote:

rwertz wrote:

I will agree (as a comment, not in anger) with VX and Clay on the concern that the mothership may not always be available to register the software if LOR goes under. But that is the direction companies are going.

I would say the trend is the opposite. Most of the companies I work with are moving to Open Source. The software isn't their revenue stream, but the hardware certainly is. The software is written as a necessity to selling the hardware, then they release what they've done so the community can take over and improve upon it.

I don't think it's the ability to control the lights that LOR is trying so hard to protect. They have spent a tremendous amount of time developing a very versatile sequencing interface. They were even open enough to create a new XML file structure that was a lot easier for some of us to work with outside of LOR. All this was available in the demo version of the software with a license required to control the light.

Then along came someone that wrote a program that took the XML file (created with the LOR's free demo software) and allowed users to control their lights without purchasing the LOR program. If you truly write code for a living, I would think you might understand how wrong that is. LOR deserves to be paid for their programming efforts, and unfortunately this is the direction they feel is most feasible.

In an effort to stay somewhat open minded in this conversation, I will still agree there should be some very basic method exposed to control the lights without having the full licensed program. When I first considered LOR I contacted them and was told there was an ActiveX control available. But I've never found out how to use it.

[displaysinmotion_will]

VirtualXmas wrote:

The fact that LOR went all weekend with a failed license server to me shows that this company isn't ready for prime time. It only takes 10 minutes to write a little piece of code to send a test registration through their server and send a text message to a cell phone should it fail. This is a piece of critical infrastructure to their business and it's customers.

Wow thats all i have to say. the one time that something may have failed you have to complain about it. Did you ever stop to think the outage could have been something out of their control? power outage? lighting strike took out a server? there are many possibilities. Doesnt mean that they are not capable of running a business. I can personnaly say that I will always do business with light o rama. the fact that they are always willing and able to take care of someone is beyond what anyone would expect. and as others have pointed out after you activate your software you can save, print, write, take a picture, draw with a crayon or your crayola markers the registration code for future installs.

[Guest guest]

VirtualXmas wrote:

rwertz wrote:

I will agree (as a comment, not in anger) with VX and Clay on the concern that the mothership may not always be available to register the software if LOR goes under. But that is the direction companies are going.

I would say the trend is the opposite. Most of the companies I work with are moving to Open Source. The software isn't their revenue stream, but the hardware certainly is. The software is written as a necessity to selling the hardware, then they release what they've done so the community can take over and improve upon it.

Don't get me wrong by my posts VX, I honestly tend to agree with you on this myself. I use a video editing software, it requires every time I have to reload it on my system due to a hard drive issue that corrupts a file or something. I paid money for it, but I have to be ON-LINE every time I re-install it or it won't work. Another issue with this video editing software, if I want to export to MPG or some other formats, I have to go ON LINE again to add them in. And I'm really furious at the company right now because they only allow you to make this upgrade THREE TIMES and after that, you get a message "YOU HAVE EXCEEDED YOUR LIMIT TO INSTALL THIS OPTION", now that is downright STUPID! If it's a FREE OPTION to be able to export to a specific format in the software, #1. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENCODED in the CODE! Not an ADD ON! #2. If they are going to make you go ON LINE every time to add it due to a re-install, then there should be NO LIMIT EITHER!

I contacted the Video Editor software support and all I got was the run around, so needless to say, I WILL NOT PURCHASE THEIR PRODUCT LINE ANY LONGER EITHER!

So, yes, I can understand quite a bit of your frustration, but I do have to say, I played with the software *(LOR) for almost TWO MONTHS prior to having any controllers, so I knew what I was getting when the time came to buy. I started with the BASIC PLUS and upgraded to ADVANCED. To me, it WAS money well spent!


BTW: if you have the latest LOR revision, IT DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO BE ON LINE TO REGISTER THE SOFTWARE! I made sure I copied my KEY to a word processor file and have it ready just in case I do need to re-install or install a new copy on another computer. LOR has made this very easy to do now and I did it on my laptop WITHOUT ever going on line. One thing I do is make an electronic copy as well as printed copy of my License Key and keep it in my "LOR NOTEBOOK" for future use/reference! So if you didn't copy your registration key or aren't using the 2.8.12 software suite, you should really think of doing this.

And this is not meant to sound or be condescending in any way, just a common sense approach to on-line servers being down and I've ran into that with MANY SOFTWARE VENDORS that are out there on the 'net.

[Frank Picozzi]

VirtualXmas wrote:

Frank Picozzi wrote

Well maybe when you're finished playing "everyone look how much I know and how smart I am" you might go outside and set up a Christmas display.

Maybe if you had half a clue and stopped to think about what I'm saying, you might actually agree with me.

Instead of the object your post, and most of the others, seems to be to get cheap shots in.

It will be interesting to see the day when something happens and YOU can't use the software and hardware. Something about "I told you so" comes to mind.

In the mean time, you can continue walking around and bumping into walls.

Many of the others on this forum have been using LOR for quite a few years and have a lot of faith in the product and the company. You come into this forum which is a site for dedicated hobbyists and start telling everyone what a raw deal the software is and everything that's wrong with it and the way that LOR runs it's business. Maybe if you had half a clue or even half a brain you'd get your head out of your ass and figure out that this isn't the place for your rants. There are a lot of brilliant and resourceful people that are members of this and other forums that will be able to figure out what to do and share with everyone else if there should be an LOR Armageddon.

If you don't like the product then don't use it. If you are such a genius just write your own software. This is the time of the year that we all enjoy the most and your negative rants are very frankly, pissing lots of people off.

[terrypowerz]

VirtualXmas wrote:

Frank Picozzi wrote

Well maybe when you're finished playing "everyone look how much I know and how smart I am" you might go outside and set up a Christmas display.

Maybe if you had half a clue and stopped to think about what I'm saying, you might actually agree with me.
Now right here I think we really see your motives. The fact you are not getting sympathy and people are not agreeing with you makes them less intelligent in your opinion.

Instead of the object your post, and most of the others, seems to be to get cheap shots in.
Condescending attitudes in forums are usually returned in like.

It will be interesting to see the day when something happens and YOU can't use the software and hardware. Something about "I told you so" comes to mind.
I doubt that this will ever happen. If you knew the history of events and the people involved and had a real grasp of the technology involved, you would realize that these things will remain usable regardless. Fantasizing of a doomsday as your describing is simply mental self gratification. It isn't going to happen for several reasons on several levels.

In the mean time, you can continue walking around and bumping into walls.
Humility is something that I don't think you have learned the value of yet.
Let me be the first to apologize for us not meeting your goals.
I think you will be meeting several of us throughout your life... Sorry.

[Guest guest]

DonFL wrote:

Orville wrote:

Color Organs? I haven't seen one of those things in years! Last one I saw I built when I was a kid back in the mid 1960's and I don't even think LOR was around then. Or if they were they may have been sort of like a Mr. Christmas box but without the sound/music unless you were using an AM radio. Even FM there wasn't that many stations around here in my region back then.

So if LOR was around, I'd figure they were basically like a 4, possibly 8 channel controller that just turned lights on/off and may have done some other effects, like flash or twinkle, and no music (no such things as MP3's back then either!) but not like what we have and do with it today.

That was the vacuum tube version...a lot of pentodes doing the work of that 16 chip PIC...

Can you still find "vacuum tubes"? :} I remember when TV's had those and had to "warm" up before you could even watch that ol' Black & White TV set.:cool:

Do they still make Nixie tubes? I've seen some items for sale that still use them, sold as a type of nostalgia item, but if one of those 0-9 nixies go bad, can you get a replacement?

Talk about hijacking a thread.:shock:

[JBullard]

VirtualXmas wrote:

Most of the companies I work with are moving to Open Source.

Well, on November 24 I listed 6 other lighting control software packages for you to consider. Did you ever try any of them? Some are FREE!

But, my bad, I left out xLights an open source program. Here is the link so you can download it and try it out for yourself

http://xlights.sourceforge.net/

[Guest guest]

Orville wrote:

DonFL wrote:

Orville wrote:

Color Organs? I haven't seen one of those things in years! Last one I saw I built when I was a kid back in the mid 1960's and I don't even think LOR was around then. Or if they were they may have been sort of like a Mr. Christmas box but without the sound/music unless you were using an AM radio. Even FM there wasn't that many stations around here in my region back then.

So if LOR was around, I'd figure they were basically like a 4, possibly 8 channel controller that just turned lights on/off and may have done some other effects, like flash or twinkle, and no music (no such things as MP3's back then either!) but not like what we have and do with it today.

That was the vacuum tube version...a lot of pentodes doing the work of that 16 chip PIC...

Can you still find "vacuum tubes"? :} I remember when TV's had those and had to "warm" up before you could even watch that ol' Black & White TV set.:cool:

Do they still make Nixie tubes? I've seen some items for sale that still use them, sold as a type of nostalgia item, but if one of those 0-9 nixies go bad, can you get a replacement?

Talk about hijacking a thread.:shock:

Probably worth hijacking...

About the only place I see vacuum tubes is high end audio equipment (the purists swear by them..still), and I would assume some higher power transmitter equipment is still using some sort of tube type equipment. My life is in the wireless/telecom side, and if you mentioned pentode or grid bias to any of my engineering teams, you'd get a funny look as if you were from another planet.

I'll PM you some info on nixie clocks..they are still out there..I swear I'm going to get one eventually..

Now, back to round 7 of our software debate cage match...

[Guest guest]

VirtualXmas wrote:

The fact that LOR went all weekend with a failed license server to me shows that this company isn't ready for prime time.

I understand your overall frustration, it's obvious throughout the thread.

But not sure you can make a judgment on a company, as you did above, simply based on one bad experience. If you've got other insights to the company...know their people, their technology, their financials, and they looked weak, then I'd have a tough time arguing with you.

Would invite you to research some of the other options JBullard points you to..while you may get the open source code, etc. that you want, what you give up in hardware, support, etc., to most, isn't worth it.

What most people on this forum will tell you is, with all the frustrations, desires for more features, annoyances, etc...LOR is still heads and shoulders above everyone else that is left. But there definitely are enough pieces and sources out there to where you can completely roll your own, software and hardware, if you don't want to go the LOR route, or even any other ready to roll solution.

[LightORamaDan]

Every year we learn more and make more improvements. We have learned some new things this year (as we do every year) and will make improvements next year as we have done for the last 7 years.

We use the wishlist as fodder for improvements as well as some of our own ideas, suggestions in the forums, emails, etc... We learn from our mistakes and we listen. We do not do every enhancement that every person wants (obviously that is impossible).

We welcome suggestions... If you are unhappy with the way tings work let us know, folks in the forums will provide suggestions for better was to do things and/or workarounds for things that are not straight forward or missing.

No software changes (that have not already been done) will happen this late in the year so we should focus on helping folks then need help. Perhaps in January when everyone still has issues they want addressed fresh in their minds, we should work together some ideas for improvements to the software.

[rwertz]

See now, this is the stuff we're talking about. How many support forums get visited by the company's CEO at 10:00 on a Friday night?

[displaysinmotion_will]

rwertz wrote:

See now, this is the stuff we're talking about. How many support forums get visited by the company's CEO at 10:00 on a Friday night?

Your absolutely right the fact that dan, mary and the rest of the lor crew cares about each and everyone of us means more to me than anything else. their loyalty to us is what makes me spend as much money as i do with them. Dan makes everyone feel like they are truly their #1 customer

[Guest guest]

kingsislandtechservices wrote:

rwertz wrote:

See now, this is the stuff we're talking about. How many support forums get visited by the company's CEO at 10:00 on a Friday night?

Your absolutely right the fact that dan, mary and the rest of the lor crew cares about each and everyone of us means more to me than anything else. their loyalty to us is what makes me spend as much money as i do with them. Dan makes everyone feel like they are truly their #1 customer

I could not agree more with this and I'm not even a year old with the LOR family yet, but from EVERYTHING I have read and even e-mailed Dan when my idiot bank wouldn't allow me to add everything I bought at once, I had to make several transactions to get everything because of how the bank had my card set up, so I e-mailed Dan and explained the situation and even had to use the wifes' bank card to complete my order, Dan went above and beyond what ANY OTHER COMPANY would have done and combined everything into ONE ORDER, instead of 3 or 4 and saved me quite a bit on the shipping charges.

Any other company would have just shipped the order as it was and I'd have had to pay all the extra charges for each item.

So, even with my complaints or dislikes of how the software annoys me from time to time, I will continue to use it, I will continue to support it and LOR because I feel, just like all the old timers out here that have been with this for many years, LOR and their staff DO GO FAR ABOVE and BEYOND to get us what we need or repaired when a problem arises, which even brings up another SUPERB POINT in LOR's favor, if you screw up your controller using someone elses software and it's still under warranty, you'll get it fixed for free. Now I DO NOT KNOW ANY OTHER COMPANY OUT HERE THAT WILL DO THAT!

Anyone else would say, you cooked it using a third party software or hardware utility, you'll have to pay to get it repaired. I haven't seen the LOR folks ever do that to anyone, now if the controller is out of its warranty period, then sure, a paid for repair is to be expected, but to repair one that something happend to under warranty using some other software, THAT IS EXTREMELY RARE and I've never seen it anywhere but with the LOR folks.

And this is why so many of us, even with our dislikes, complaints and questions/comments for enhancement/changes to the software suite stay with a company(LOR) we know for a fact, can be trusted and goes well above what any other company would do in a similar situation!

You just CAN NOT ASK for ANY BETTER THAN THAT!

[Frank Picozzi]

rwertz wrote:

See now, this is the stuff we're talking about. How many support forums get visited by the company's CEO at 10:00 on a Friday night?

Yeah but I won't foget the fact that he ate more than his share of pizza at Andy's

[Guest guest]

Frank Picozzi wrote:

rwertz wrote:

See now, this is the stuff we're talking about. How many support forums get visited by the company's CEO at 10:00 on a Friday night?

Yeah but I won't foget the fact that he ate more than his share of pizza at Andy's

Shouldn't you be outside stringing some more lights or something Frank?

[Frank Picozzi]

Orville wrote:

Frank Picozzi wrote:

rwertz wrote:

See now, this is the stuff we're talking about. How many support forums get visited by the company's CEO at 10:00 on a Friday night?

Yeah but I won't foget the fact that he ate more than his share of pizza at Andy's

Shouldn't you be outside stringing some more lights or something Frank?

My lights have been strung for a week and a half. The show started running tonight. I have plenty of time to harrass people.

[LightORamaDan]

The fact that LOR went all weekend with a failed license server to me shows that this company isn't ready for prime time.

Will take the lumps when we deserve them, and yes we did have a problem with the License Database on Saturday Nov 29.

However the database was not down all weekend. On Saturday night at 10:03 we received notification from one of our dealers that the automated (on-line store) interface to the License Database was getting an error.

We started calling LOR staff within 2 minutes and had someone working on it with 15 minutes and a second person on it within an hour. We have premium support at the ISP that runs the database and get response from them within 5 minutes.

By 11:30 the database was running. I do not know exactly when the problem started so I cannot tell you exactly how long the database was not available.

Here is the problem I see, and the action item I have given myself as a result of this issue with the Database. The problem is that we relied on someone else to tell us that there was a problem with the database. Action item: Early next year we will setup an active monitoring system that generates alarms if the database has an error.

Believe me, I take all of this very seriously.

There are many other license schemes that don't rely on any type of "mothership" to be available. After I give a company my money, and they give me my license, I shouldn't ever have to be concerned about their continued existence in order to use that product. That's not the case with LOR.

I generally (but not always) stay out of threads like this but I want to make something clear. As a company we are in good shape. But anything can happen so if it ever becomes apparent that LOR is in trouble, I will make sure that the software is "unlocked", source code released, and firmware release before we close our doors.

--------

One thing about the OP's post. (I just recently found out that OP was original poster but had to ask). We are acutely aware that as some users are moving to TONs of channels that we need to enhance the ways that some things are handled and have already started on changes to make things different/better.



Dan

[LightORamaDan]

Frank Picozzi wrote:

rwertz wrote:

See now, this is the stuff we're talking about. How many support forums get visited by the company's CEO at 10:00 on a Friday night?

Yeah but I won't foget the fact that he ate more than his share of pizza at Andy's

That was good pizza!