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ItsMeBobO

What ever happened to SUPERSPEED ?

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Frank Farmer    44

I switched everything up to 500K this morning. My CCR tree looks better than ever. I had one sequence I didn't finish because it didn't look good because of all the choking, but I'm going to finish it tonight and try it out tomorrow. I had to put my CCR tree star on the standard network because the 16-channel controller dosn't go up to 500K, but that wasn't a problem.

Lots of possiblities for next year!

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Chagoi    1

I have a 12 ccr mega tree on three networks and when i go from 115k to 500k it gets choppy and it starts missing commands. i put it back at 115k and all is fine...

yup, same here

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ItsMeBobO    276

great, go on and on.

My 8 CCR network is working fine at 500k and my other CCP & CCB networks are much improved. The OP (me) was asking if the faster speed would be delivered this season and is pleased it was. CCRs are several seasons but network cables and adapters are all new.

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Gilrock    3

One thing to keep in mind is that higher baud rates are not going to be as reliable across longer distances. Another thing I never got answered is whether the signal is degraded each time you daisy chain it through a controller or whether each controller provides a new boost to the signal.

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k6ccc    500

One thing to keep in mind is that higher baud rates are not going to be as reliable across longer distances. Another thing I never got answered is whether the signal is degraded each time you daisy chain it through a controller or whether each controller provides a new boost to the signal.

The controllers do not regenerate the signal.

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k6ccc    500

I think it's already available and I'm using it this year. Until they finally get a better solution I think It's called DMX. :)

Or far batter, DMX over ethernet - AKA E1.31. For Christmas I am running my pixel tree on E1.31. Runs just fine. Shortly after the new year I should get a bunch more of my landscape lighting completed and some of that will be E1.31.

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Chagoi    1

My 8 CCR network is working fine at 500k and my other CCP & CCB networks are much improved. The OP (me) was asking if the faster speed would be delivered this season and is pleased it was. CCRs are several seasons but network cables and adapters are all new.

already covered, again

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i redownloaded the firmware and double checked everything and still i throw it in 500k and it gets sloppy and misses commands. i have in one sequence were one ccr comes on all white in the sequence (double checked that) and its multicolored outside.... but i can put it back to 115k and all is good

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Gilrock    3

i redownloaded the firmware and double checked everything and still i throw it in 500k and it gets sloppy and misses commands. i have in one sequence were one ccr comes on all white in the sequence (double checked that) and its multicolored outside.... but i can put it back to 115k and all is good

How far are your cable runs and how many controllers do you have connected in series? Any estimate of your total length?

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three networks 100ft cables on each network with 4 ccrs in series on each network....and total length on each network 110ft that over estimated

Edited by forddieseldean

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Frank Farmer    44
forddieseldean, you said you redownloded the firmware, but you don't have to, it's included in the 3.9 software. If your downloading firmware version 1.07 from the lightorama web-site, that is NOT the latest firmware. You need to install CCR Firmware version 1.10 using the Hardware utility.

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Gilrock    3

three networks 100ft cables on each network with 4 ccrs in series on each network

So you have 100ft out to the first CCR in each network and then a short daisy chain across the 4 CCRs? That doesn't sound like a cable length issue then.

Do you make your own cables? You could try buying a 100' of Cat6 cable and doing a temporary run out to one of the sets of 4 CCRs and see if it works. That's if you have the crimper to make your own cables. Probably a good investment if you are going to be in this hobby.

Finally do you really need the 500K speed...i.e. are you seeing lag issues you are trying to fix or just want the latest version? I just ask because it's more reliable to run the lower speed if you have a lag issue you are trying to fix. Brian was running 6 CCRs per network. I know others have said more than 3 can cause a little lag. I only have 3 on one network along with 2 controllers and 2 CCRs on the other network with 1 controller so I haven't stressed the 115K very much.

Edited by Gilrock

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forddieseldean, you said you redownloded the firmware, but you don't have to, it's included in the 3.9 software. If your downloading firmware version 1.07 from the lightorama web-site, that is NOT the latest firmware. You need to install CCR Firmware version 1.10 using the Hardware utility.

sorry i didn't mean redownloaded i meant reinstalled 1.10

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So you have 100ft out to the first CCR in each network and then a short daisy chain across the 4 CCRs? That doesn't sound like a cable length issue then.

Do you make your own cables? You could try buying a 100' of Cat6 cable and doing a temporary run out to one of the sets of 4 CCRs and see if it works. That's if you have the crimper to make your own cables. Probably a good investment if you are going to be in this hobby.

Finally do you really need the 500K speed...i.e. are you seeing lag issues you are trying to fix or just want the latest version? I just ask because it's more reliable to run the lower speed if you have a lag issue you are trying to fix. Brian was running 6 CCRs per network. I know others have said more than 3 can cause a little lag. I only have 3 on one network along with 2 controllers and 2 CCRs on the other network with 1 controller so I haven't stressed the 115K very much.

i bought these cables and i do have crimpers to do my own.......is cat 6 cable a must i have 5e. it is not lagging i just was trying it out and noticed the missed commands and really smooth Edited by forddieseldean

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Gilrock    3

I was trying to research the data rate limits for RS-485. I found a nice table where Texas Instruments did testing for RS-232 but not for RS-485. But I did find this bit of information. Most of these factors you will not be able to control except for the length and quality of the cable. Some of the other factors are in Light-o-rama's hands when they design the hardware.

What Factors Limit the RS-485 Data Rate?

The following factors affect how far one can reliably transmit at a given data rate:

  • Cable length: At a given frequency, the signal is attenuated by the cable as a function of length.
  • Cable construction: Cat5 24AWG twisted pair is a very common cable type used for RS-485 systems. Adding shielding to the cable enhances noise immunity, and thereby increases the data rate for a given distance.
  • Cable characteristic impedance: Distributed capacitance and inductance slows edges, reducing noise margin and compromising the 'eye pattern'. Distributed resistance attenuates the signal level directly.
  • Driver output impedance: If too high, this limits drive capability.
  • Receiver input impedance: If too low, this limits the number of receivers that the driver can handle.
  • Termination: A long cable can act like a transmission line. Terminating the cable with its characteristic impedance reduces reflections and increases the achievable data rate.
  • Noise margin: Bigger is better.
  • Slew rate of driver: Slower edges (lower slew rates) enable transmission over longer cable lengths.

Edited by Gilrock

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Frank Farmer    44

I do all my own cables and use Cat 5e, havn't had any problems. My longest run is 175 feet, all together I'm running about 700ft. The two cables (2-networks) running to my CCR tree (12-ribbon) is only about 60 feet each.

Edited by Frank Farmer

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I was trying to research the data rate limits for RS-485. I found a nice table where Texas Instruments did testing for RS-232 but not for RS-485. But I did find this bit of information. Most of these factors you will not be able to control except for the length and quality of the cable. Some of the other factors are in Light-o-rama's hands when they design the hardware.

What Factors Limit the RS-485 Data Rate?

The following factors affect how far one can reliably transmit at a given data rate:

  • Cable length: At a given frequency, the signal is attenuated by the cable as a function of length.
  • Cable construction: Cat5 24AWG twisted pair is a very common cable type used for RS-485 systems. Adding shielding to the cable enhances noise immunity, and thereby increases the data rate for a given distance.
  • Cable characteristic impedance: Distributed capacitance and inductance slows edges, reducing noise margin and compromising the 'eye pattern'. Distributed resistance attenuates the signal level directly.
  • Driver output impedance: If too high, this limits drive capability.
  • Receiver input impedance: If too low, this limits the number of receivers that the driver can handle.
  • Termination: A long cable can act like a transmission line. Terminating the cable with its characteristic impedance reduces reflections and increases the achievable data rate.
  • Noise margin: Bigger is better.
  • Slew rate of driver: Slower edges (lower slew rates) enable transmission over longer cable lengths.

my cables are cat 5E twisted pair 24 awg and they are kept far away from electrical lines

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Gilrock    3

Well I'm just throwing out the possibility of long cables being one source of issues. It sounds like some folks are using the higher speed with no issues and others are having problems so things like bad cable connections or long cable runs are possibilities. I also know they advertise 4000' for RS-485 but I just found another reference that indicates at 4000' the max data rate is about 100 Kb/s. When you increase the rate to 500Kb/s the max cable distance looks like it drops to around 650'.

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DLTSLC    2

Sorry to revisit this subject but......

 

#1 Is there ANY way to know if the RS-485's are 500k compatible ?  I bought them about 14 months ago.

 

#2 I've read conflicting reports that if ALL the controllers on a network are not 500k 'compatible' it will wreak havoc in the signal processing speeds and cause 'issues.'  Anyone verify that ?

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BrianBruderer    141

Each network runs independent of the other. If one of your networks had an RS-485 that was not 500K compatible I do not see how it could effect the performance of the other networks.

For me, I have two of the 485's that are rated for 500K and I have some old ones that are not. I tried the 500K rated ones and saw no difference. I am currently using the old ones and am running 500K and everything works fine. My most recent videos are using 500K and the old adapters that are not rated for 500K.

But you might want to go ahead and get the 500K compatible ones, because otherwise every time you have a problem of any type you will wonder if it is being caused by your RS-485 adapters.

By the way, if you did have a problem with an adapter I would expect the signal to be "noisy" and commands would occasionally get sent wrong or commands would be missing resulting in channels that spuriously stay on when they shouldn't or occasionally don't come on at all. But that's just a guess, I have never experienced the problem myself.

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