cat5 daisy chain question

[Guest guest]

I found this online, was wondering if something like this would work.

[bwaldrep]

nope, if you look in the description, and you see those numbers, that is the pin out order, and what that does, isn't "split" the signal into 2, it separates the pins into 2 plugs, similar to what a line 1/2 phone splitter would do.

[Guest guest]

bwaldrep wrote:

nope, if you look in the description, and you see those numbers, that is the pin out order, and what that does, isn't "split" the signal into 2, it separates the pins into 2 plugs, similar to what a line 1/2 phone splitter would do.

But in theory, isn't this what I need? If it were configured in such a way that all the wires match up?

[bwaldrep]

It would be possible, yes, to wire things up so that all the pins outs match correctly. It would involve changing what wire/pair, goes to what pin, on all your cables. If you know enough about cat5 cabling, you could pretty much make anything work, it just comes down to what you are wiling to do. In fact you could easily make the Y device you found, verses buying them.

You are then where Jeff was talking about before. That in theory, you could wire things up in a non-daisy chain fashion. but that isn't a supported layout by LOR. It may work, it may not. But I think if you start going down this road you would be making more work for yourself.

[melwelch]

july1962 wrote:

I THOUGHT I was just going to be able to run one cat5 cable from each LOR to a junction box and plug it in like a phone cord.

I hate to tell you this but you thought wrong..... What gets me when someone tries to tell you this you insists on the fact you paid for the wrong setup and you want us to tell you how to make a configuration that in no way will work, work.... Strange....

[Tim Fischer]

Your electrician wired up a configuration that would work if you had each controller near the outlets, but is impractical for your needs. Rather than trying to force yourself to use it "because it's paid for and you hate to waste it", just run wire from controller like the rest of us do.

To answer your questions:

1) It's a bad idea to have a "Y" in an RS485 network, which is what an LOR network is.
2) Due to #1, there's nothing "magical" you can do to only run one wire to your controller, AND have it feed to the next controller.
3) Due to #2, you have the choices that bwaldrep iterated through. As I mentioned at the start of this post, #4 is the only one that makes any real sense, now that the money has been spent. Why through good money (and time) after bad?

No "attitude" here, just telling it how I see it.

[Guest wbottomley]

From the LOR FAQ page: http://www.lightorama.com/LOR_FAQ.html

Daisy Chain
The manner in which Light-O-Rama light controllers are connected. A wire goes from the show source (the PC, a Director Unit or an MP3 Player) to a Companion Unit. Another wire goes from the Companion unit to the next Companion Unit, etc. The units are “ chained” together. Do not put “Y”s or forks in the data cable. Only connect the units in a Daisy Chain configuration.

Data Cable
Light-O-Rama considers a cable a Data Cable if the wires are connected straight through. Light-O-Rama can use both Data Cable and Phone Cable BUT you must know which type of cable it is.



Most likely, the only cable that you will see that is NOT Data Cable is a wire that is intended specifically for phones. If you go to the local Hardware Store and purchase a phone extension cable then that wire it is NOT a Data Cable The distinction between Data Cable and Phone Cable is important because the wires are swapped in a phone cable. There are selectors, jumpers or jacks on most Light-O-Rama controllers that allow you to choose the correct wire type.



Only the wire coming into a controller (from the previous controller or show source) is used to determine the selector settings. The wire leaving a controller (if there is one) can be of any type and has no bearing on the cable selection. For example: If you have a Phone Cable in and a Data Cable out then set the Unit for Phone Cable.

[Guest guest]

melwelch wrote:

july1962 wrote:

I THOUGHT I was just going to be able to run one cat5 cable from each LOR to a junction box and plug it in like a phone cord.

I hate to tell you this but you thought wrong..... What gets me when someone tries to tell you this you insists on the fact you paid for the wrong setup and you want us to tell you how to make a configuration that in no way will work, work.... Strange....

What a strange thing to say!

I was not wrong. The electrician was wrong. I told him exactly what I wanted and he misinterpreted it. I even used the telephone plug in as the scenario.

And funny that you say that a configuration will "in no way work," when the last guy said it was possible.

Why is it important for you to be so snarky in a post like this?

[Guest guest]

Tim Fischer wrote:

Your electrician wired up a configuration that would work if you had each controller near the outlets, but is impractical for your needs. Rather than trying to force yourself to use it "because it's paid for and you hate to waste it", just run wire from controller like the rest of us do.

To answer your questions:

1) It's a bad idea to have a "Y" in an RS485 network, which is what an LOR network is.
2) Due to #1, there's nothing "magical" you can do to only run one wire to your controller, AND have it feed to the next controller.
3) Due to #2, you have the choices that bwaldrep iterated through. As I mentioned at the start of this post, #4 is the only one that makes any real sense, now that the money has been spent. Why through good money (and time) after bad?

No "attitude" here, just telling it how I see it.

No, I appreciate the help. I know NOTHING about this stuff, so it's hard for me to even ask and word the questions properly, so my apologies for my ignorance of the basics. I'm good at following the instructions, but not how to figure out the specifics.

Another thought. The LOR's have the little box where you can plug in 2 cat5 cables. One cable goes in, one comes out. I don't know what's on the other side of that box to make it work, but couldn't that same sort of box be wired into the terminals I had installed so that the daisy chain exists inside the terminal and you just hook into it? Or is it always just a straight line with one in and one out and not nothing else can tap into the same line? Don't all the "pins" in each plug line up along the line to the same "pins" and if so, why couldn't you tap in anywhere along the line if the "pins" line up? So instead of 2 plugs (like in the LOR) there would be 3...one in, one out (to create the daisy chain, and then another to tap into?

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know how the works and how I would incorporate it into my system? I don't really understand the description on the LOR page.

http://store.lightorama.com/rsnere.html

[Guest wbottomley]

Just hook them into the system.

http://lightorama.com/Documents/LOR-Rep_Man.pdf

[Jeff Sand]

Just to further clarify my idea in the previous post, what I am talking about is in the diagram in the attachment. Take two seperate pairs of wires in the cat5, and terminate each set of two pairs into separate RJ-45 connectors, using pins 4 & 5 (data) and 3 & 6 (power) on each one. You're not splitting anything, and you'd still be using the intended daisy-chain topology. You'd just be combining the two cables into one cable, since LOR only uses 4 conductors out of the 8-conductor cable.

This is probably unsupported by LOR and almost certainly not within official RS485 spec, but it would probably work just fine at the bandwidth we're working with here.

Although I maintain that at $0.10-$0.12/foot for unshielded Cat5e, this may be more effort than it's really worth.




Attached files

[Guest guest]

Mountainwxman wrote:

Just hook them into the system.

http://lightorama.com/Documents/LOR-Rep_Man.pdf

Thanks. This looks like it solves the problem, but at $90 a piece, not really feasible since I'd need 3.

[Guest wbottomley]

I'm using one this year...so far, no problems.

[Jeff Sand]

july1962 wrote:

Does anyone know how the works and how I would incorporate it into my system? I don't really understand the description on the LOR page.

http://store.lightorama.com/rsnere.html

Just think of it as a splitter. One signal in, two signals out, plus amplification. I don't think it's going to do you any good in your scenario.

[Guest guest]

Jeff Sand wrote:

july1962 wrote:

Does anyone know how the works and how I would incorporate it into my system? I don't really understand the description on the LOR page.

http://store.lightorama.com/rsnere.html

Just think of it as a splitter. One signal in, two signals out, plus amplification. I don't think it's going to do you any good in your scenario.

Actually, I think it's exactly what I need, but not at that cost. I have 2 wires coming out of my terminals that I need to plug 2 into. That's what it looks like this does. But I'd need one at each of 3 terminals.

[Jeff Sand]

july1962 wrote:

Jeff Sand wrote:

july1962 wrote:

Does anyone know how the works and how I would incorporate it into my system? I don't really understand the description on the LOR page.

http://store.lightorama.com/rsnere.html

Just think of it as a splitter. One signal in, two signals out, plus amplification. I don't think it's going to do you any good in your scenario.

Actually, I think it's exactly what I need, but not at that cost. I have 2 wires coming out of my terminals that I need to plug 2 into. That's what it looks like this does. But I'd need one at each of 3 terminals.

I suppose you could could put a repeater at each junction box, send output to the next junction box and the other output to the LOR controller. Expensive, but the topology would work.

Did you check out my suggestion in the diagram above?

[Guest guest]

Jeff Sand wrote:

I suppose you could could put a repeater at each junction box, send output to the next junction box and the other output to the LOR controller. Expensive, but the topology would work.

Did you check out my suggestion in the diagram above?

I did! I'd love to try it but have no expertise in figuring out how to actually do it. I think I'm just going to have to see if I can get my money back from the electrician and go the regular daisy chain route.

Thanks all for participating in this!

[PaulXmas]

Hi

Can you draw a picture of what goes to where?

I think you have something like this?


Basement -----------------------Roof-----------------????
and so on?

[Guest guest]

PaulXmas wrote:

Hi

Can you draw a picture of what goes to where?

I think you have something like this?


Basement -----------------------Roof-----------------????
and so on?

Computer---------Cat5 cable with female end----------Terminal One (2 cat5 cables w/female ends)------Terminal Two (2 cat5 cables w/female ends)-------Terminal Three (2 cat5 cables w/female ends)--------Terminal Four (1 cat5 cables w/female end)