cat5 daisy chain question

[Guest guest]

OK, I had an electrician friend of mine come in and run me electrical outlets, one for each LOR in my yard. That works great. However, he decided he also wanted to run me cat5 cable to each electrical outlet (side by side) so I could just plug my LOR units right in at each junction instead of daisy chaining box to box.

However, what I've ended up with is 2 cat 5 cables coming out of each junction that he thought I'd plug into each LOR to daisy chain. He actually thought I'd leave each LOR right at each junction he put in for me, not realizing it's best to put the boxes as close to each display as possible.

So now I have to run TWO cat5 cables from each LOR to these junction boxes instead of just ONE cat5 cable from box to box. This doesn't work for me. I thought I was going to be able to run a cat5 to the junction box like you'd plug a phone cord into the wall.

But he says they don't make cat5 parts like that...that you can't splice them together like a phone wall jack.

Anyone know if that's right?

[bwaldrep]

That is correct (Basic answer), however I must ask, if you don't like what he wired, just don't use it, and run cat 5 from controller to controller, just as if he didn't do anything at all.

[Frank A.]

Good morning

I have cat five in receptacle boxes(outdoor weathproof)

there is an adaptor plate and female connector available (lowes)

The following sketch is what the wiring scheme I think you would like to

utilize I will find you a link

Frank A.


Attached files

[Guest guest]

bwaldrep...I paid for the parts and labor. If I were rich, I'd just ignore what's out there. However, it's not what I told him I needed and I don't like the thought of having something there that I can't use.

Frank A...It looks like you're still just daisy-chaining them LOR to LOR. I now have 4 junction boxes with 2 cat5 cables sticking out of each end. I now have to run two cat5 cables from my LORs to the junction boxes (because each LOR isn't necessarily going to sit right at the junction box.

I guess what I need is a way to hook the 2 cables together and a way to hook the third (from the LOR) into that...like a splitter?

[Frank A.]

Hi

here is the link

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=248282-60784-F3450-WH-V5

this type of connector allows you to insert the cat 5 cable with the little push tool that is shown in the link diagram the adaaptor plate is in the same section at lowes stores

a seperate weatherproof box would be required

Frank A.

[Guest guest]

I think that's what I have already. Here's a photo of what they gave me.

[bwaldrep]

july1962 wrote:

bwaldrep...I paid for the parts and labor. If I were rich, I'd just ignore what's out there. However, it's not what I told him I needed and I don't like the thought of having something there that I can't use.

Maybe I don't fully understand what you are explaining. The way I understand it, as an example, you have 2 LOR controllers in your front yard (again, as an example) Both power, and Cat5 is on the outside of our house. So you saying to complete the daisy chain you have to loop back to your house after every controller. It isn't a matter of being rich, and not using what you already paid for it, is about what do you still need to pay for.

If you have to run 1000 feet of Cat5 cable to connect everything using the currently wired wrong set up, but only 500 feet if you just run from controller to controller. doesn't it make sense to only buy 500 feet, verses 1000 feet? IE saving money?

HOWEVER, If it isn't what you "ordered" from him, have him fix it, it is just that simple, no need to get upset at me, for your electrical guys screw up.

All that aside, what needs to be done, is a standard 1-1 daisy chain, you can't split it, like you can a POTS (Plain Old Telephone System) line. If you want to spend more money, you can get a "y" from LOR.

[Guest guest]

You're coming off as having a very strange attitude to me. First telling me to just live with it and now doing so again, but even longer.

I came here to ask a simple question. Is there anything I can get NOW that I have this scenario I won't use, to make it work. It would be ridiculous to buy more cable and run more cable when I can simply run one cable from LOR to LOR, bypassing what was installed.

Of course I would either have him fix it or refund. That's not the issue. I'm trying to find out if it IS fixable from people who know a lot about this here. It may not be fixable at which point I'd get a refund. It IS a matter of not being rich when your suggestion was that I just live with it.

I don't know what a "y" from LOR is.

[Frank A.]

Hi

I am going to be offline for a couple of days

a couple of questons

box 1 has to cat 5 cables - do they have ends on them(connectors male or female)

box 2 has to cat 5 cables - do they have ends on them(connectors male or female)

do the two cat 5 cables run from box 1 to box 2

where is the computer cat 5 tie into your wiring scheme box 1 or box 2

Frank A.

[Guest guest]

Here's my setup.

Computer to box 1 (on my roof), which has 2 female ends sticking out. Then to box 2 (side of the house), 3 (fence near the street) and 4 (other side of the house) the same setup, except box 4 just has one end sticking out.

This setup works, but it defeats the purpose. Now I have to run 2 cat5 cables from each LOR (except #4) to each junction box to create the daisy-chain. If I were to skip a junction box, I'd need to couple each of the two wires together to create the chain.

[bwaldrep]

july1962 wrote:

It would be ridiculous to buy more cable and run more cable when I can simply run one cable from LOR to LOR, bypassing what was installed.

That is EXACTLY what I'm suggesting. just run a cable from each controller. Simple as that.

As for the Y http://store.lightorama.com/rsnere.html

[Jeff Sand]

LOR is designed to run on a daisy-chain topology. That is, you have one cord going into a box, and another cord going out of the box to the next box, i.e. 2 cords to each box. If your electrician friend wired each pair of cat5 jacks such that they are also daisy-chained from box-to-box, then yes you will need to run two cat5 cables to each LOR (one in, one out), to make this topology work.

Now, that being said, LOR uses RS-485 for its communication network. This is sort of like the old serial (COM, not USB) port on your computer, but for larger networks. The RS-485 spec does allow a bus topology, whereby you have one main
"stem" and split off each node from the bus wherever it is needed. This is still not exactly like telephone wiring. Using cable splitters is not officially supported by the Light-O-Rama company. LOR does also send 10V power on another wire pair on the cable, and I haven't tested myself to see how this would respond to a bus network. Some members here have reported that using cable splitters does work.

As a first step, I would recommend you determine for certain how your electrician ran the cat5, and then design the rest of your network from there.

[Guest guest]

Jeff Sand wrote:

LOR is designed to run on a daisy-chain topology. That is, you have one cord going into a box, and another cord going out of the box to the next box, i.e. 2 cords to each box. If your electrician friend wired each pair of cat5 jacks such that they are also daisy-chained from box-to-box, then yes you will need to run two cat5 cables to each LOR (one in, one out), to make this topology work.

Now, that being said, LOR uses RS-485 for its communication network. This is sort of like the old serial (COM, not USB) port on your computer, but for larger networks. The RS-485 spec does allow a star topology, whereby you can run one cable to each node and then tie them all together in one spot, like telephone wiring. This is not officially supported by the Light-O-Rama company. LOR does also send 10V power on another wire pair on the cable, and I haven't tested myself to see how this would respond to a star network. Some members here have reported that using cable splitters does work.

As a first step, I would recommend you determine for certain how your electrician ran the cat5 - whether daisy-chained or star, and then design the rest of your network from there.

I am so NOT an electronics person Jeff, so this went above my head. But it sounded promising! LOL

I don't think the electrician ran a "star topology." It's basically 2 wires to each junction box that he intended to be plugged into each LOR (not realizing that the LORs won't necessarily sit right next to the junction boxes. So you'd plug both into the LOR to create the daisy chain.

I'm just wondering if there isn't some part where you could plug both of those wires into something and then a third cat5 cable into that same part that would then run to the LOR.

[Guest guest]

bwaldrep wrote:

july1962 wrote:

It would be ridiculous to buy more cable and run more cable when I can simply run one cable from LOR to LOR, bypassing what was installed.

That is EXACTLY what I'm suggesting. just run a cable from each controller. Simple as that.

As for the Y http://store.lightorama.com/rsnere.html

Yes, I know that's what you're suggesting. However, it totally ignores the fact that I've paid good money for something that won't work while I run controller to controller. That's why I originally said I wasn't rich. I can't afford to pay for something and ignore it just to do something else.

Thanks for the link. That looks promising, but I don't understand how it works. I'll contact LOR about it.

[Frank A.]

Hi

no three wire hook up that I have seen

My setup uses two cat 5's from controller back to outlect box

I understand why you do not want this

Sorry for the no useful help category

Frank A.

[bwaldrep]

I personally don't think you need the Y, nor do I think you really need to spend much money, if any at all, to fix the issue.

I think we should take a step back, and get a good picture of what you have now.

The 2 ends that are in your picture, what is on the other end of each wire. Meaning are those 2 ends, just connected to each other (like a 3 inch piece of cat 5 in the box with both ends having a female cat5 end on it), or do each end go somewhere?

We need to know what your electrician did.

[Jeff Sand]

Just wanted to make note that I edited my post after I wrote it. Wanted to make clear that what RS485 allows is technically a multi-drop bus network. While that is logically a star network, it is physically a linear bus network. Google "RS485 topology" for more reading on the specs.

[Guest guest]

bwaldrep wrote:

I personally don't think you need the Y, nor do I think you really need to spend much money, if any at all, to fix the issue.

I think we should take a step back, and get a good picture of what you have now.

The 2 ends that are in your picture, what is on the other end of each wire. Meaning are those 2 ends, just connected to each end of the cable (like a 3 inch piece of cat 5 in the box), or do each end go somewhere?

We need to know what your electrician did.

Sorry, thought I had explained it already.

I have a cat5 cable in my house that I plug my computer into. That cable runs to box 1, which is to plug into the first LOR. There is a second cable in box 1 that I also plug into box 1 that runs to box 2 and so on.

The electrician thought that each LOR would sit right next to the junction boxes. So when I told him that they wouldn't necessarily sit right next to them, he put female ends on the cables instead. Now I have to run 2 cat5 cables to each junction box, which defeats the purpose somewhat. It would be easier (and less cable) just to daisy-chain box to box.

I THOUGHT I was just going to be able to run one cat5 cable from each LOR to a junction box and plug it in like a phone cord.

[bwaldrep]

then you have a few options the way I see it.

1) Have the electrician fix it (already discussed)
2) run 2 cables to each controller (already discussed)
3) The Y, I linked to, would technically work, but it would cost you a lot, as you would need one at each box the electrician installed. Not an ideal solution, in my mind. You would take 1 short cable from the electricians box, go into the Y, then a longer cable from the Y, to the controller. Now, go back to the Y, and place another short cable to the 2nd jack the electrician installed at that box. Repeat at each box
4) From box one, run a cable to your fisrt controller, and then forget about what the electrician did, and just run from controller to controller. (Already discussed, it cost you no money now, but you are upset you paid for the electrions work, and it is wrong.)

Those are the options, as I see it.

[Jeff Sand]

I think if I were you, I would measure out the distances involved, and if it would take less cable to go directly box-to-box, then do that and forget about the installed wiring. If using the installed runs can save you any distance, then run go that route.

One other alternative - LOR only uses 2 pairs of wires. Cat5 has 4 pairs of wires. You could custom-make cables to go from the outlets on the house to the LOR box, and atttach two sets of plugs at each end. Essentially run both directions in the same cable. Two pairs in one direction and two pairs in the other direction. Let me know if this makes sense.