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MGoBlue102

Receiving Unit Options for P10 Panels

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5 minutes ago, dkulp said:

This is entirely dependent on the number of panels per output on the BeagleBone.   With less than about 6 or 7 P10 panels per output, the Beaglebone will drive them faster than the colorlight.   We actually have to lower the refresh on the outputs because it starts driving them too fast and we get some ghosting on some of the slower panels.    The ColorLights/Linsn does have the advantage of the 12 or 16 outputs so the panel chains can be kept shorter.      However, the colorlight/linsn stuff is more complex as you have to setup stuff in two places (FPP and the card control panel thing) and adds extra latency of a couple ms (at least) due to the extra hops for the data, particularly for bridge mode.

When running the P10s from the pi or a beaglebone with a hat I always seem to have some glitchy data on a panel or ghosting that was minor but still there.

I know the color light is a bit more complicated, but I found have had a Brighter Image with better color depth and 0 problems with glitching or ghosting on the panels. 

At the moment I'm running in bridge mode and the leg time is not noticeable. 

I did change bridge mode timing from 50 down to 25 milliseconds. 

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26 minutes ago, dkulp said:

This is entirely dependent on the number of panels per output on the BeagleBone.   With less than about 6 or 7 P10 panels per output, the Beaglebone will drive them faster than the colorlight.   We actually have to lower the refresh on the outputs because it starts driving them too fast and we get some ghosting on some of the slower panels.    The ColorLights/Linsn does have the advantage of the 12 or 16 outputs so the panel chains can be kept shorter.      However, the colorlight/linsn stuff is more complex as you have to setup stuff in two places (FPP and the card control panel thing) and adds extra latency of a couple ms (at least) due to the extra hops for the data, particularly for bridge mode.

I have a BBB and Octo coming.  Hopefully it is delivered this week.  I will be trying that setup myself to make my own determinations for my 56 panel matrix.  I have three concepts all together that I will be trying primarily.  BBB/Octo straight to matrix.  Pi/adafruit matrix hat straight to matrix and then using a colorlight/linsn receiver connected to the panel getting it's signal from a controller/sending unit.  All of which will be driven by either the Xlights, FPP or LOR sequencing software to start with.  Still trying to find posts or video of any or all of those concepts to know for certain if someone else has already tried such and if it worked or not.

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I think the beaglebone with the Octo is going to be a good setup for you.

I've run all three setups.

One of the reasons I switched to the color light card was to remove the pi or beaglebone from the back of my P10 panel. 

My P10 panels were in a position where if I had to get to the beaglebone or pi it was going to be difficult and with the color light card I don't have to worry about things like corrupted SD cards. 

When you're planning this you're going to have to figure that you need 2 amps per panel so figure on to 350 watt power supplies. 

I would suggest to mean well lrs-350-5.

Correction. I remember hearing that the beaglebone does not play well with the mean well power supplies on Startup. 

Edited by Ebuechner

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37 minutes ago, Ebuechner said:

I think the beaglebone with the Octo is going to be a good setup for you.

I've run all three setups.

One of the reasons I switched to the color light card was to remove the pi or beaglebone from the back of my P10 panel. 

My P10 panels were in a position where if I had to get to the beaglebone or pi it was going to be difficult and with the color light card I don't have to worry about things like corrupted SD cards. 

When you're planning this you're going to have to figure that you need 2 amps per panel so figure on to 350 watt power supplies. 

I would suggest to mean well lrs-350-5.

Correction. I remember hearing that the beaglebone does not play well with the mean well power supplies on Startup. 

Thanks, yea, I have some 350's now and ordered some various aluminum products to do the framing enclosure.  Considering some extruded aluminum channels with t slots as well as a few other options but not locked into any one item.  They are about 1" thick and 1" wide for the single and 2" for the double.  The grooves appear to line up perfectly with the screw holes on the backs of the panels and it would give me some serious strength without adding too much weight.  Another thought is some flat aluminum with holes lined up to connect panel to panel which is fine but gives me no depth on the back side.  I am considering making a 3" deep product to allow cards and power supplies to be inside with the panels and all the wiring etc. not seen since this particular matrix will be on my porch and plenty of people may be in that area when asking for candy.

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9 hours ago, jerry72 said:

Why not get a raspberry pi and a matrix pi hat? That is what i use.

Been there, done that.  The performance of the Pi driving a ColorLight which drives the P10 panels is far better than the Pi directly driving the P10 panels with a PiHat.  The only thing I’m using the PiHat for is power to the Pi.

 

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Ed, looking at your photo collection, it looks like you have a sheet of lexan (or similar plastic) in front of the panel, and something solid on the back.  Did you use some sealer on the joints for waterproofing?

 

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10 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Ed, looking at your photo collection, it looks like you have a sheet of lexan (or similar plastic) in front of the panel, and something solid on the back.  Did you use some sealer on the joints for waterproofing?

 

No, absolutely everything is designed for the water to run over the seams on to the next panel similar to the way you would shingle a roof. 

This allows things to move and breathe while keeping it weatherproof. 

The only thing I'll have to worry about is If gravity reverses but I think at that point I'll have bigger things to worry about. 

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3 hours ago, MGoBlue102 said:

I'm not certain yet that an Lor controller will not talk to the receiver.  I have not seen anyone on here mentioned that they have already attempted such and that it would not work.  As with any receiver, they except their data through an input ethernet and send out the data to the panel using a 16 pin hub75.  Just a theory still but the Lor controller would act as a sending unit to begin the process.

Absolutely not at this time.  Does not mean that LOR won’t add that capability some time in the future, but not now.  The ColorLight receiver is looking for a specific raw Ethernet data (it’s not IP).  The Falcon guys have reverse engineered it and that can be driven by LOR .  If you are going to run a panel driven by a ColorLight card from LOR (I am), the data flow is:

LOR show computer > E1.31 > Raspberry Pi running Falcon Player > Gigabit Ethernet > ColorLight card > P10 panels.

I believe they have the ColorLight code in the BeagleBone Black as well, so you could use a BBB rather than the Pi (if that is correct).  I’m using a Pi 3b so not paying that much attention to the BBB.

The ColorLight requires a gigabit Ethernet connection which most of the Pi’s don’t have, so most of us are using a USB to gigabit Ethernet adapter.  However since you have a Pi 3b+, it does have gigabit built in.

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3 minutes ago, Ebuechner said:

No, absolutely everything is designed for the water to run over the seams on to the next panel similar to the way you would shingle a roof. 

How about the side?  There is nothing to keep water flowing down the front at the joint between the side panel and the plastic face from going in between the side and face and the around end of the plastic.

 

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51 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Been there, done that.  The performance of the Pi driving a ColorLight which drives the P10 panels is far better than the Pi directly driving the P10 panels with a PiHat.  The only thing I’m using the PiHat for is power to the Pi.

 

How are you connecting the pi directly to the receiver?

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Just now, k6ccc said:

How about the side?  There is nothing to keep water flowing down the front at the joint between the side panel and the plastic face from going in between the side and face and the around end of the plastic.

 

Not necessary.

The amount of water that would drive into that seem even in the driving rain would be minimal.

I've already accounted for a small amount of water with drain holes on the bottom and I've used Cedar for that reason as well.

I've been using this setup for a few years with success

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2 minutes ago, MGoBlue102 said:

How are you connecting the pi directly to the receiver?

Oh, I think you already answered.  Using the RJ45 ethernet connection off the PI as an output.  I assume you are using the wifi or usb ports as your input from the show pc to get the initial communication flowing.

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10 minutes ago, MGoBlue102 said:

Oh, I think you already answered.  Using the RJ45 ethernet connection off the PI as an output.  I assume you are using the wifi or usb ports as your input from the show pc to get the initial communication flowing.

When using a color light card your pi or beaglebone black needs to have two ethernet connections. 

The first one is to receive data and then the second one is needed is a dedicated output to the color light card typically what is used as a USB 3.0 to gigabit adapter. 

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17 minutes ago, MGoBlue102 said:

How are you connecting the pi directly to the receiver?

LOR E1.31 network connects to the built in Pi Ethernet connection and the ColorLight connects to a Trendnet USB to gigabit Ethernet adapter.  Btw, if you go that route, make sure to ask Ed or me which one to get.

 

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1 hour ago, MGoBlue102 said:

Wow, looking them over now.  Incredible.  Looks like you have got some time invested.

Wow, just wow, where are you going to put that huge one.  It appears to be 9-10 feet wide.  Amazing though.  You have got some serious amounts of p10's in your arsenal.  Man so many questions.  What is the black material between panels, steel?  aluminum, coro?  what is the white outer layer?  I can tell it is aluminum but what did it start as?  fascia material from a hardware store, pre cut straight sheet or a roll?  Any issues with glare off the plexi?  How close to the panel is the plexi?

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5 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

LOR E1.31 network connects to the built in Pi Ethernet connection and the ColorLight connects to a Trendnet USB to gigabit Ethernet adapter.  Btw, if you go that route, make sure to ask Ed or me which one to get.

 

Oh ok, did not think about using converters too.  Man, that seems like you add in the possibility of headache when something is not working right, trying to figure out which component is the issue.  Would be nice to keep straight runs where possible.  I guess there is always that small possibility that everything will always work exactly as expected for as long as you need it to....:D

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4 minutes ago, MGoBlue102 said:

Wow, just wow, where are you going to put that huge one.  It appears to be 9-10 feet wide.  Amazing though.  You have got some serious amounts of p10's in your arsenal.  Man so many questions.  What is the black material between panels, steel?  aluminum, coro?  what is the white outer layer?  I can tell it is aluminum but what did it start as?  fascia material from a hardware store, pre cut straight sheet or a roll?  Any issues with glare off the plexi?  How close to the panel is the plexi?

It really sounds like we need to do a zoom session to answer some of your questions.

This is how I've helped k6ccc Chet and a few others.

Do you have a microphone or a webcam that you can use on your computer?

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36 minutes ago, Ebuechner said:

It really sounds like we need to do a zoom session to answer some of your questions.

This is how I've helped k6ccc Chet and a few others.

Do you have a microphone or a webcam that you can use on your computer?

Cool, I will check that out and see what is necessary.  I doubt I have a camera or mic so will have to figure that part out.  I just have a laptop.  It may have both.  I know at the top, there is a small hole that I believe is a camera.  Today was the first time I heard of that interface.  Glad you happened to be on today.  

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If you don't have mic and camera on your computer, you can call in via phone for the audio and just watch Ed demonstrate stuff.  I don't have that capability so I was talking and listening on the phone.  that worked fine.

 

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1 hour ago, MGoBlue102 said:

Oh ok, did not think about using converters too.  Man, that seems like you add in the possibility of headache when something is not working right, trying to figure out which component is the issue.  Would be nice to keep straight runs where possible.  I guess there is always that small possibility that everything will always work exactly as expected for as long as you need it to....:D

It adds one more piece, but it's simple plug and play.  No added configuration or drivers required.  And it's only $14

This is the one that Ed recommended and I now have two of:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FFJ0RKE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Since you have the Pi 3b+ which does have a gigibit Ethernet interface, you have some other options of using that one interface for both the E1.31 data from the show player AND the ColorLight data using a switch.  You could also use the WiFi for the E1.31 connection and the Ethernet for ColorLight connection - but I don't recommend that as it puts A LOT of traffic onto your WiFi.

 

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3 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

It adds one more piece, but it's simple plug and play.  No added configuration or drivers required.  And it's only $14

This is the one that Ed recommended and I now have two of:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FFJ0RKE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Since you have the Pi 3b+ which does have a gigibit Ethernet interface, you have some other options of using that one interface for both the E1.31 data from the show player AND the ColorLight data using a switch.  You could also use the WiFi for the E1.31 connection and the Ethernet for ColorLight connection - but I don't recommend that as it puts A LOT of traffic onto your WiFi.

 

At the immediate hour, I would test that thought out as well as I am only testing the 100 panels I just got in one at a time.  I need to make sure they all at least work before I confirm payment with Ray.  I just need to see a test pattern ran on each and every individual panel.  I may test the wifi capabilities of the pi using that process.

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5 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

It adds one more piece, but it's simple plug and play.  No added configuration or drivers required.  And it's only $14

This is the one that Ed recommended and I now have two of:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FFJ0RKE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Since you have the Pi 3b+ which does have a gigibit Ethernet interface, you have some other options of using that one interface for both the E1.31 data from the show player AND the ColorLight data using a switch.  You could also use the WiFi for the E1.31 connection and the Ethernet for ColorLight connection - but I don't recommend that as it puts A LOT of traffic onto your WiFi.

 

No I would never recommend trying to use a switch even if that Pi has a gigabit connection. 

First off the switch is going to cost more than a USB 3.0 to gigabit adapter.

Second the traffic coming out trying to talk to the color light is going to go everywhere and load down the network. 

Wi-Fi is an option if the fpp is going to be running as a standalone or as a slave.

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7 minutes ago, Ebuechner said:

No I would never recommend trying to use a switch even if that Pi has a gigabit connection. 

First off the switch is going to cost more than a USB 3.0 to gigabit adapter.

Second the traffic coming out trying to talk to the color light is going to go everywhere and load down the network. 

Wi-Fi is an option if the fpp is going to be running as a standalone or as a slave.

Yea, I am going to test the wi fi side of that tonight when just running a test sequence to each panel.  Nothing further at the moment.

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