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how many 100mini lights strings of 0.33 Amps to a channel?


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#1 trinidad

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:24 AM

Hello to all of you! Looking for help. if the controller is 30 amps - 15 per each side - how many 100mini lights strings of 0.33 can i connect to each channel? i want to use one 16 channel controller to animated a mega Christmas Tree. Please let me know.

thanks

#2 GaryM

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:30 AM

http://www.lightoram...UserMan_Web.pdf

pages 15 and 16 cover what you need to know.

#3 Sabre03

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:51 AM

there are so many ways to tackle this question. if you want all lights on at the exact same time then you could add 5 strands per channel. that's a total of 80 strands of lights if you're going to have half the lights on and half of them off at the same time then you could add more strands. to keep it simple stick with 5 strands per channel and sequence it however you want you won't have to worry about anything. make sure each bank is plugged into its own 15 or 20 amp outlet

Edited by Sabre03, 28 September 2012 - 11:12 AM.


#4 Klayfish

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:55 AM

A math question. Ouch, my head suddenly hurts... B)

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#5 Guest_wbottomley_*

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:11 AM

At the top of this forum, it says "This specific forum is to be used to ask questions related to the new forum software. Please do not use this forum for Light-O-Rama specific questions, as this specific forum is not expected to be here permanently."

You need to post these questions in the appropriate area.

#6 trinidad

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:46 AM

wbottomley, My appologies - i will make sure i do this correct next time - thanks any way and sorry about it.

#7 Arteom

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:39 PM

Math? Pfth, asked the right person.

This is simple...

Make it easier 30÷2 & 16÷2 = 15 Amps for 8 Channels

15÷8= 1.875 Amps per Channel

Now

1.875÷0.33 = 5.681

So ALWAYS round down with lights

1 Channel will support 550 Mini-Incandescent Lights, if you are using Heavy duty, they use more power.

Invest in a cheap Watt-O-Meter http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cca71cdb2

I have one, it works wonders and is very accurate. I never burn fuses anymore, because stray voltages, out lights and bad fuses can all affect amp draw.
Christmas is cancelled!

I told Santa you were good this year and he died laughing...

#8 DevMike

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:02 PM

Math? Pfth, asked the right person.

This is simple...
[snip...]


Your math may be right, but your assumptions are all wrong ;)

Yes, the max per side is 15A, but the absolute max of any ONE channel is 8A.

It is perfectly acceptable to have 45 strings on at a single time: 24 strings on a single channel, and 21 on a second all at .33/a each or 8A on channel 1 and 7A on channel 2. (Of course, this all assumes you are using the high-power heat sinks).

So why can't I use 45 strings (15A) on a single channel?
Because the triacs (the solid-state devices that turn the lights on and off) are only rated to 8A.

Why can't I use 8A on a triac rated for 8A without a heatsink?
Because heat is what kills triacs, and they are ONLY rated to 8A when a proper heat sink is used.
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#9 DevMike

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:14 PM

... So, what's the max number of strings I can have on a light controller? Would you believe it if I said 'Nearly unlimited'? Well, not really unlimited, but a whole lot more than you expect:

In the above example I showed where you could have 24 strings on a single channel. And you can. All day long. But that's not really the MAX, that's the MAX at FULL BRIGHTNESS. Can you run 48 strings without burning up a triac or controller? Sure! just keep the intensity turned down.

Now wait a second! Don't think you can run 48 strings at 50%! What we are talking about is electricity and that means it's not a linear relationship. If I remember my theory correctly, dividing the duty cycle (of the AC wave) in half, does not mean a one-half reduction in amperage consumed.

... which is why when we talk about load per channel we always tend to talk in Maximums. That keeps your equipment safe.

Sorry folks. Remember when your 10'th grade math teacher told you you would someday need what he/she was teaching? Surprise! Your hobby requires math :P
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#10 james campbell

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:19 PM

... So, what's the max number of strings I can have on a light controller? Would you believe it if I said 'Nearly unlimited'? Well, not really unlimited, but a whole lot more than you expect:

In the above example I showed where you could have 24 strings on a single channel. And you can. All day long. But that's not really the MAX, that's the MAX at FULL BRIGHTNESS. Can you run 48 strings without burning up a triac or controller? Sure! just keep the intensity turned down.

Now wait a second! Don't think you can run 48 strings at 50%! What we are talking about is electricity and that means it's not a linear relationship. If I remember my theory correctly, dividing the duty cycle (of the AC wave) in half, does not mean a one-half reduction in amperage consumed.

... which is why when we talk about load per channel we always tend to talk in Maximums. That keeps your equipment safe.

Sorry folks. Remember when your 10'th grade math teacher told you you would someday need what he/she was teaching? Surprise! Your hobby requires math :P

all the time in school I always thought I won't use math everday so whats the big deal,,,,,,,,,then I ended up a machinist :)

Edited by james campbell, 02 October 2012 - 03:19 PM.

lor_112_snow_green.gif

20000_snow_green_0.gif

ocd+ thousands of lights +hundreds of channels+miles of extension cords+hours listening to Christmas music= happiness

Adding 750 dmx channels to get ready to amp it up next season


#11 Santas Helper

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 03:21 PM

Sorry folks. Remember when your 10'th grade math teacher told you you would someday need what he/she was teaching? Surprise! Your hobby requires math :P


Mike, my math teacher said I didn't have to learn math if I have friends later in life that knew math. So thank you for being around. :) You saved me from regretting to have done better in math.
AKA - TOM

#12 shfr26

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:07 PM

Shall we listen to somebody with under 100posts or somebody with over 1,000 plus??? There is your basic math.
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#13 Santas Helper

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:04 PM

Shall we listen to somebody with under 100posts or somebody with over 1,000 plus??? There is your basic math.


To me it don't matter.
As long as they know math and are a friend. I'm going with my teacher's saying back in the day. Let someone else do the math :P
Edit: well..... maybe that wasn't her exact words but that's what I got out of it. :lol:

Edited by Santas Helper, 02 October 2012 - 06:04 PM.

AKA - TOM

#14 Dad02

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:04 PM

"GCM$ d-- s++:++ a? C++++(6$ net$ cob$ cic$ db2$ LN$ php$ ms$) UL+$ P--- N+ W+++++$ O+ M-- t+@ 5-- X+++ R tv+ b++ DI++++ D---- G e+++ h+++ r*"


Sorry I can't resist (and I don't blame you if you want to blast me) but do you also do lights.....

#15 DevMike

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:10 PM

"GCM$ d-- s++:++ a? C++++(6$ net$ cob$ cic$ db2$ LN$ php$ ms$) UL+$ P--- N+ W+++++$ O+ M-- t+@ 5-- X+++ R tv+ b++ DI++++ D---- G e+++ h+++ r*"


Sorry I can't resist (and I don't blame you if you want to blast me) but do you also do lights.....


There is a translation of that code somewhere around here....

GCM$ d-- s++:++ a? C++++(6$ net$ cob$ cic$ db2$ LN$ php$ ms$) UL+$ P--- N+ W+++++$ O+ M-- t+@ 5-- X+++ R tv+ b++ DI++++ D---- G e+++ h+++ r*


#16 Arteom

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:24 PM

... So, what's the max number of strings I can have on a light controller? Would you believe it if I said 'Nearly unlimited'? Well, not really unlimited, but a whole lot more than you expect:

In the above example I showed where you could have 24 strings on a single channel. And you can. All day long. But that's not really the MAX, that's the MAX at FULL BRIGHTNESS. Can you run 48 strings without burning up a triac or controller? Sure! just keep the intensity turned down.



Whoa Mike, I think we are getting a-little off here, there are infinite possibilities to try to explain how much lights can be controlled per channel... you're r getting into intensities, and loads etc etc... The question, logically speaking, was how much can a light o rama handle on a mega tree, considering the mega tree has 16 channels and each channel has the same amount of lights, am i not correct?

I'm sure that one point in time trinidad will turn all the lights on his controller on full, and his mega tree will contain the same amount of lights per channel, otherwise it will look odd?



Sorry folks. Remember when your 10'th grade math teacher told you you would someday need what he/she was teaching? Surprise! Your hobby requires math :P


My teacher always told me one thing, a question may have one thousand answers, but think about it using common sense and answer with the most logical answer.

Again if the question was how much is the MOST possible light strings cana light o rama control given the circumstances, then id be in the wrong, but not this time.

Edited by Arteom, 02 October 2012 - 08:25 PM.

Christmas is cancelled!

I told Santa you were good this year and he died laughing...

#17 Santas Helper

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:43 PM

Wow. My math teacher would be proud of this crowd.
AKA - TOM

#18 Surfing4Dough

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:51 PM

I'm sure that one point in time trinidad will turn all the lights on his controller on full, and his mega tree will contain the same amount of lights per channel, otherwise it will look odd?


Why does he have to turn them all on at once? Say 8ch are white and 4ch are red and 4ch are green (my megatree; red and greens are "up and overs"). Why should he have to turn them all on at once. Nothing odd about solid white, using just half the channels. Or solid green with faint (50%) white every other section. Etc., etc., etc. Or what about having a rule that whenever red is turned on a prop, that green will never be on at the same time on the same prop (and vice versa).

My teacher always told me one thing, a question may have one thousand answers, but think about it using common sense and answer with the most logical answer.

Again if the question was how much is the MOST possible light strings cana light o rama control given the circumstances, then id be in the wrong, but not this time.


Sorry, but I think you are wrong. If you limit yourself to just 5 strings per channel, you are going to require a lot more controllers to control a substantial number of lights. Yes common sense is useful (and rare) but sometimes you have to think way beyond that level to maximize your potential. Mike is entirely right on the above topic and question.
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#19 DevMike

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:54 PM

You could make those assumptions, but that won't make them true.

There is nothing that says the OP doesn't want to make a 4 section tree with 3 colors each using 1 string (12), a VERY FULL full-white tree using 24 strings (1), strobes (1), and a topper (2).

Or perhaps he wants an 8 section 2 color tree that is 75' tall which is going to require 9 strings per section.

Or what about Mini's that only draw .2A/100? (those are called 'Energy Savers')

Or users who run their lights at a max of 80% brightness to save energy and extend bulb life?

Or..... (can you see the myrad of different options here?????)

So, the correct answer is: 8A per channel, 15A per side, not x number of strings per channel.

What you are proposing is a short-cut answer which is incorrect: In the world of electricity, there are no short cuts: do the math or risk killing a channel, a controller, or yourself.
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#20 Guest_wbottomley_*

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:12 PM

Would any of those math figures change if the mega-tree was upside down? The electricity would run downhill in turn take less power.

#21 DevMike

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:45 PM

Would any of those math figures change if the mega-tree was upside down? The electricity would run downhill in turn take less power.


One time while camping with the parents, mom was complaining about slow electricity. Is that the same?

(Someone tripped on the cord and unplugged the skillet)

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#22 GaryM

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:14 AM

One time while camping with the parents, mom was complaining about slow electricity. Is that the same?

(Someone tripped on the cord and unplugged the skillet)


Whoa Mike..I think you are getting a little off here.

How many skillets per channel was your mom trying to use?

More importantly, if you're camping why is she using an electric skillet?

'Fess up...who forgot the matches?

Edited by GaryM, 03 October 2012 - 02:19 AM.

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#23 BillyTRichVa

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:00 AM

How many skillets per channel? I Love it!
269 LOR channels, E1.31, sandevices E681 loaded
summerleafchristmas.com

#24 Surfing4Dough

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:23 AM

Whoa Mike..I think you are getting a little off here.

How many skillets per channel was your mom trying to use?

More importantly, if you're camping why is she using an electric skillet?

'Fess up...who forgot the matches?


Most electric skillets (except for the very small ones) use 1000W so not wise to use even one on a channel. I guess you could use the skillet on the lowest intensity setting (but keep your sequence at 100%), and then you could probably use a couple on a single channel, but then it would take too long for the food to cook.
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#25 Santas Helper

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:31 AM

I would suggest using relays for the skillets. Now this opens it up to a kitchen full of skillets, and all under one LOR controller.
AKA - TOM

#26 DevMike

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:32 AM

Most electric skillets (except for the very small ones) use 1000W so not wise to use even one on a channel. I guess you could use the skillet on the lowest intensity setting (but keep your sequence at 100%), and then you could probably use a couple on a single channel, but then it would take too long for the food to cook.


And thus, we come full circle to slow electricity :)

Actually, the number of skillets required depends on the number of pancake stacks needed.
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#27 james campbell

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:51 PM

And thus, we come full circle to slow electricity :)

Actually, the number of skillets required depends on the number of pancake stacks needed.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm pancakes :wub:

lor_112_snow_green.gif

20000_snow_green_0.gif

ocd+ thousands of lights +hundreds of channels+miles of extension cords+hours listening to Christmas music= happiness

Adding 750 dmx channels to get ready to amp it up next season


#28 Steven

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:33 PM

If I remember my theory correctly, dividing the duty cycle (of the AC wave) in half, does not mean a one-half reduction in amperage consumed.

Interestingly, if the lights were purely resistive, then running at 50% duty cycle would reduce the average current, voltage, and power all by 50%. (Which is not intuitive, since P = V * I, but that's a longer story.)

However, the resistance of the filament of an incandescent lamp increases as its temperature increases, so reducing the duty cycle by 50% will not reduce the average current as much.

#29 Surfing4Dough

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:55 PM

Somebody used a meter and graphed out the amperage used for various intensities, and it did go down as intensities were reduced but not by much (something like 50% intensity reduced amperage consumed by about 10%). I am too lazy to look for the old thread though.
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#30 DevMike

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:13 PM

Interestingly, if the lights were purely resistive, then running at 50% duty cycle would reduce the average current, voltage, and power all by 50%. (Which is not intuitive, since P = V * I, but that's a longer story.)

However, the resistance of the filament of an incandescent lamp increases as its temperature increases, so reducing the duty cycle by 50% will not reduce the average current as much.

Somebody used a meter and graphed out the amperage used for various intensities, and it did go down as intensities were reduced but not by much (something like 50% intensity reduced amperage consumed by about 10%). I am too lazy to look for the old thread though.


That's what I was thinking, not the Duty cycle stuff. I stand corrected :)

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#31 Surfing4Dough

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:07 PM

Here were some tests done in the past

Quote from iresq:

I used 4 strings of 100 count mini's. One of the strings is half dead (now were is my light zapper?), so we are talking about 350 minis. Power measured by kill-o-watt.

100% - .98 amps
90% - .96 amps
80% - .94 amps
70% - .91 amps
60% - .88 amps
50% - .83 amps
40% - .77 amps
30% - .69 amps
20% - .59 amps
10% - .48 amps

So with these lights, you need an almost 90% reduction in intensity to half your power draw.


Quote from Randy:

I did a test like this two years ago with 8 strings of Target minis. I used a multimeter to measure the voltage and current when dimming the 8 strings....

"Dim" Experiment using LOR Hardware utility (numbers are for 8 strings):
100% = 2.5 amps @ 117 volts = 293 watts
90% = 2.4 amps @ 110 volts = 264 watts
80% = 2.3 amps @ 102 volts = 235 watts
70% = 2.1 amps @ 91 volts = 191 watts
60% = 1.9 amps @ 79 volts = 150 watts
50% = 1.7 amps @ 65 volts = 111 watts
40% = 1.5 amps @ 51 volts = 77 watts
30% = 1.2 amps @ 36 volts = 43 watts
20% = 1.0 amps @ 24 volts = 24 watts
10% = 0.8 amps @ 11 volts = 9 watts


Quoted from Ernie:

Based on Randy's data:
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Edited by Surfing4Dough, 03 October 2012 - 07:08 PM.

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#32 Guest_Don Gillespie_*

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:26 PM

thats to much information, just plug in as many lights as you have, turn them on, if the breaker doesn't trip pat your self on the back, if it does trip unplug one at a time until you find out the right amount,end of discussion. ;)
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#33 Surfing4Dough

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:58 PM

thats to much information, just plug in as many lights as you have, turn them on, if the breaker doesn't trip pat your self on the back, if it does trip unplug one at a time until you find out the right amount,end of discussion. ;)


Yes, but once you pour the pancake batter, you have to finish the batch. ;)
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#34 gmac

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:16 PM

thats to much information, just plug in as many lights as you have, turn them on, if the breaker doesn't trip pat your self on the back, if it does trip unplug one at a time until you find out the right amount,end of discussion. ;)

+1

#35 DevMike

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:33 PM

thats to much information, just plug in as many lights as you have, turn them on, if the breaker doesn't trip pat your self on the back, if it does trip unplug one at a time until you find out the right amount,end of discussion. ;)


Noting your and the 2 people who liked your comments accounts about warranty replacements and additional future charges :P

(That's a joke folks, for those who don't understand my humor)

GCM$ d-- s++:++ a? C++++(6$ net$ cob$ cic$ db2$ LN$ php$ ms$) UL+$ P--- N+ W+++++$ O+ M-- t+@ 5-- X+++ R tv+ b++ DI++++ D---- G e+++ h+++ r*