Oh crap, show system all down, I need your help please

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

Hi everyone,

karl here from the UK, I have just had to do a 100 mile rush trip home due to my christmas lights tripping the circuit breaker on the house! What can I do to diagnose the problem?

Many thanks

Karl

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

Currently on train trouble shooting over the phone. When we unplug both LOR boards & reset circuit breakers all is fine.

According to my brother he said shed smelt of electrical burning. I've told him to leave power off till I'm back so can't rule out if fuses (could be burnt) are making said smell.

I am also going to try & pinpoint which board is causing it by plugging 1 in each at time waiting to see what causes the trip then remove all plugged in items on channels & work systematically adding 1 at time till there's a trip. If it trips then said item on channel is at fault.

Does this seem ike a suitable trouble shooting method?

Thanks karl

[Victory402]

Karl,

You have a short. You have to isolate each circuit to find it. Once you find the shorted circuit you can repair it or just eliminate it until you have the time to repair it.

Do you have GFI outlets? If so, it may be you are tripping the ground fault, this is common in rainy weather. Similar symptom to tripping a circuit breaker. GFI's have little reset buttons on the outlet to reset them you simply push the reset button on them. I have GFI Breakers on our home, so it's a little different because the reset button is on the breaker instead of the outlet.



Hope this helps some.

Vic

[Victory402]

LOL...Your on the right track. No pun intended.



Vic

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

I'm nearly home!! Frustrating waiting for trains when you know your display is out!

The main panel in the house has switches on each mains ring which cut off if problem, presuming GFI system? I will get cracking soon as I'm home!!

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

I'm nearly home!! Frustrating waiting for trains when you know your display is out!

The main panel in the house has switches on each mains ring which cut off if problem, presuming GFI system? I will get cracking soon as I'm home!!

Thanks for your reply! :-)

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

I'm nearly home!! Frustrating waiting for trains when you know your display is out!

The main panel in the house has switches on each mains ring which cut off if problem, presuming GFI system? I will get cracking soon as I'm home!!

What about this burning smell?

Thanks for your reply! :-)

[Victory402]

Burning smell is the symptom of a short.

1. It could be one of your supply cords heating up: plastic smell

2 Circuit board. This is a bit more complicated to trace a short on.

3. Use your nose to sniff out the exact location of the short.

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

Oh f*ck I sniffed about & one of my boards I had a nasty discovery!
The boards burnt/damaged...think 2 channels have been wiped out around resistor/opto isolaters near heat sink pic to follow! What the he'll can I do now?! Why didn't the fuses blow on the board to protect it?

Dan if your Reading this can you save me & my display?

A sad karl

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

i checked the boards fuses....they never blew...there fine...shouldnt they of blown? They are there for protection arent they?

Where do I go with this....I have 1 working 16 channel board and 32 channels...

Can I power up just 1/2 of the broken board? Its currently a dual power fed board.
Will it work if I remove the 2 items plugged in on these channels...

Am I under warranty?

LOR please help =(

Many thanks

Karl

[Jeff Sand]

The fuse protects each half of the board at 15A. Each channel is also limited to 8A but these are not individually fused. I had something very similar happen and burned up a board at a job site last year. You're looking at a couple of possibilities. I'm assuming at this point that you weren't shorting out or overloading to the tune of more than ~15A, or else the fuse would have blown.

1) Whatever lights are on that channel in the yard developed a short and started pulling too much current through the channel.

2) The triac itself developed a short and burned itself up.

3) A foreign object came into contact with the board around that channel and shorted something.

You can rule out #1 by taking the extension cord or lights that were on that channel and plugging it straight into the outlet for a few minutes and see if anything starts smoking.

The rest of that bank of channels may or may not fried. I don't think you'll do much more harm by unplugging the burnt channel and testing the rest of the channels.

Also can you tell us exactly which board this is and how you're converting (I assume) your 240V into the LOR input?

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

Ok,

I plugged in 1 1/2 of the board, didnt trip out but no red flashing light so proceeded to plug the other feed and then everything tripped. I did this with the 2 lights on the channels that appear to be dammaged unplugged but still tripped.

I think the board is foobed.... I have sent a PM to Dan hopefully he and the LOR team can save me!! =(

Its a Planetchristmas 16 channel board bought preassembled.
Its 240V UK mains supply distributed over 2 ring mains via the dual power feed option you can do with LOR.

I know #3 can be ruled out as its in its own case indoors and is sealed and has not been tampered with.

Will be checking #1 in a second

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

ok #1 ruled out all items on the affected channels 10 and 11 are fully fuctional and did not trip my ground fault interupter.

=) Ok so my boards screwed?

[Tim Fischer]

How much power are you pulling through those channels?

If I had to guess from the pic, the 'epicenter' of the damage is around the wire for Channel 11. Is it possible that connection is loose and overheated?

How long has your show been up?

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

I know I am below the spec limits but havent got my spreadsheet to hand, its at university where I have just ran from to get home to help out! Also we were basically running the same display as we was last year except with 3 ccrs this year which are completely independant of the problem I have.

Shows been up offically for 10 days and part of this evening 11th day, its also been tested for a day before with no problems. The wires are tightly crimped into spades and took some force for me to pull the wire free of the spade to do a test of the lights.

The wires themselves appear completely normal.

[Tim Fischer]

I'm going to put money on the theory that Channel #11's connection was loose, overheated, and burned up the board, until someone talks me into a better theory

How good are you with electronics? It should be repairable, but will require some grinding away burnt traces and soldering on jumper wires (and perhaps replacing dead components...)

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

Although your theory is possible, surely with another 15 similar connections 1 of them or more could of over heated and with 31 days of use with same system last year.

I am not bad, but I havent a clue where I can get new components in the UK and the boards been burnt back to like the mesh under the green/blue coating surface. I was hoping LOR would come through for me

[Tim Fischer]

Another theory is something got under the board, caused it to short/arc, and overheat. Pics of the underside of the board (w/o heatsink) would be helpful...

[Christmas_time_karl_UK]

That board was contaminant free in its enclousure which was shut and the room it was in hasnt been accessed as I lock it and I only have access, the board also sits flat and level so nothing could fall along the back of it.

Good theory though. I have emailed dan so hope to hear from him