Sequence Schedule Questions Breaker Tripping Problem

[cyberfix]

LOR Experts & Enthusiasts,

I have a couple of problems that I would appreciate feedback on:

1) In the last day, I noticed my breaker tripped twice. What is the best way to troubleshoot or isolate the cause of this? I have a 64 Channel LOR system with all of them plugged into a 40AMP dedicated breaker panel (shared). At least half the lights are LED lights, so I do not think it is the overall load. Is the maximum load per channel 8 amps? This did happen to start when I moved an item with a blower to another channel to share. That channel has 2 moving deer motors, 1 ski bear motor and a blower motor on it. What is the average amps for blower motors and those motors in moving deer heads?

2) I am having an issue understanding interactive triggers and scheduling shows. I have the MP3 director on one of my LOR1602W controllers to control my show. It hast the latest firmware. It seems to work fine to just schedule shows, but this year I wanted to add an interactive button to trigger the show at other times. The last attempt that I did, played the show on the hour and then repeated it and I stopped it before it finished the second time through. Here is what I would like to do in the Hardware Utility for the MP3 Director:

Show 1) 5:01PM to 12:20AM with shows every hour and only once, play a "channels on" animation sequence once the show is complete, but not all channels on (all sequences and animations are done). I have 6 sequences selected with one startup sequence for a total of 16 minutes of show.

Show 2) 12:20AM to 3:00AM continuous loop through my "lights on" animation with security flood light channels turned on.

Show 3) 3:00AM to 8:00AM continuous loop through "security lights channel on" animation.

Show 4) Trigger sequence with monetary button normally open defined to be the same sequences as Show 1 above.

Note: I have not tried exactly as I just stated, but I have tried with the trigger on Show 1 with the rest of the show as 2, 3, and 4 with and without allowing shows to be interrupted selected. I am not sure that if the "Allow show to be interrupted by trigger" refers to the show only (playing sequences on the hour) or if it means the whole time schedule including the period of the animation of "lights on" after the show completes. I would like to trigger any time the 16 minute show isnot playing and there is power.

I would appreciate any feedback as this is the last thing to get working on my show.

Thanks,
Shannon

[iresq]

Inflatables generally pull about .5 amps. Unsure on reindeer. Would highly suggest you invest in a kill-o-watt or some other amp meter. That will really help you in understanding the power requirements and help balance your needs.

Can't help on the triggers.

[Guest Don Gillespie]

Had the same problem about two weeks ago get rid of the motors and the blowers and everything should work it did for me all you have to do is unplug the motors the lights will still work that one baffeled me for a long time, good luck

[cyberfix]

iresq wrote:

Inflatables generally pull about .5 amps. Unsure on reindeer. Would highly suggest you invest in a kill-o-watt or some other amp meter. That will really help you in understanding the power requirements and help balance your needs.

Can't help on the triggers.

Is it up to 8 Amps per cord (Channel) for a total of 15 or 30 amps depending on how the controller is plugged in?

Thanks

[iresq]

Depending on the controller and heat syncs.

Most controllers will handle up to 8 amps per channel, 15 amps per side for a total of 30 amps (assuming you are supplying with two power cords). If you have a single power cable, 15 amps will be the max for the controller.

What controller do you have?

[cyberfix]

D&G Gillespie wrote:

Had the same problem about two weeks ago get rid of the motors and the blowers and everything should work it did for me all you have to do is unplug the motors the lights will still work that one baffeled me for a long time, good luck

I have the motors operating independently so that the items keep inflated or moving when a show is performing. I wanted to to have the LOR units handle everything, but maybe I will move them to their own circuit with a cheap timer.

Does anybody know if I trigger the breaker as is and I move the blower and motors off of the LOR controller, but on the same plug, would it still blow? I am not sure if an LOR unit can throw it because of a load on 1 channel, but it would be okay if it was directly plugged into the same circuit.

Thanks

[cyberfix]

iresq wrote:

Depending on the controller and heat syncs.

Most controllers will handle up to 8 amps per channel, 15 amps per side for a total of 30 amps (assuming you are supplying with two power cords). If you have a single power cable, 15 amps will be the max for the controller.

What controller do you have?

I have 1 LOR1602MP3 and 3 LOR1602W controllers. I have them all with both plugs plugged in, but they are plugged into the same circuit. I was always unsure if this meant I had 15 AMPs or 30. I thought it required separate circuits to get the 30 AMPs.

[Guest Don Gillespie]

MaxPaul explained it to me very well if you go to page 5 for the newbie sectopn scroll down to where there is hardware utiliy problem pull that up and go to page two Max Paul cleared evertything up about the motors for me once I unplugged the motors I have not had a problem and the show looks great might want to try it and see if it works for you:)

[Guest Don Gillespie]

As I under stand you need to have controller plugged into its own circut so if you have two plug ins on one controller you need two plug ins for that controller that way you are not in any conflict with the controllers

[iresq]

cyberfix wrote:

I have 1 LOR1602MP3 and 3 LOR1602W controllers. I have them all with both plugs plugged in, but they are plugged into the same circuit. I was always unsure if this meant I had 15 AMPs or 30. I thought it required separate circuits to get the 30 AMPs.

They would have to go on separate circuits unless you have 30/50 amp circuits, which I doubt unless you had them custom installed.

Most residential circuits are 15/20. So you could not run 15 amps per side with both sides plugged into the same outlet.

With that said, until you know what your power requirements are, it is really hard to say what will work for you. I have 4 controllers. 3 on 1 circuit, 1 on another. I can do this because I know my 3 controllers, all on 100%, only draws just over 8 amps (mostly LED). My 4th also draws about 8 amps total. So I use a 3 way adapter to power both supply cords from one outlet.

[iresq]

D&G Gillespie wrote:

As I under stand you need to have controller plugged into its own circut so if you have two plug ins on one controller you need two plug ins for that controller that way you are not in any conflict with the controllers

Not really sure what you are asking here. There is no conflict between controllers. The conflict that might arise is trying to pull too much power from the outlet.

[iresq]

D&G Gillespie wrote:

MaxPaul explained it to me very well if you go to page 5 for the newbie sectopn scroll down to where there is hardware utiliy problem pull that up and go to page two Max Paul cleared evertything up about the motors for me once I unplugged the motors I have not had a problem and the show looks great might want to try it and see if it works for you:)

Here is a link to the post mentioned above.

http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/forum80/20627-2.html

You can have motorized objects controlled by LOR (just make sure they are either on or off. Never fade, twinkle, or shimmer.

Yes, you need to be careful because of the start-up spike, but this should only be a concern if you are playing around the limits of your controller/power supply.

I have controlled motorized deer, inflatables, etc. with no issues. I now use X10 for most static elements.

[Jeff Sand]

If you're tripping the breaker, you're pulling too much current through the outlet (or outlets) that circuit in the panel controls. Whether or not that load is on an LOR or plugged in directly is irrelevant. Each LOR baord can pull a maxium of (usually) 15A through each side. Within that, each individual channel (plug) on the LOR also has a maximum of 8A, again assuming you're using the high-capacity heatsink or the standard configuration in the LOR1602. If you aren't blowing any fuses in the LOR itself, then you're not overloading the LOR in and of itself. To get the maxium 30A in the LOR (15A + 15A), then the two input cords need to be plugged into different outlets on different circuits from the panel.

Also, if these are GFCI breakers, make sure it's the breaker itself that's tripping and not the GFCI. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. If it's the breaker, the whole switch should move toward the off position. If it's a GFCI breaker and the GFCI is tripping, usually there's some sort of red red button or indidcator and the whole switch won't move.

[cyberfix]

Also, if these are GFCI breakers, make sure it's the breaker itself that's tripping and not the GFCI. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. If it's the breaker, the whole switch should move toward the off position. If it's a GFCI breaker and the GFCI is tripping, usually there's some sort of red red button or indidcator and the whole switch won't move.

I have a 30A breaker that my room mate and I installed with outlets in the soffits. These are only for the LOR controllers. If I understand you correctly, then we are only getting 15A for all 16 channels instead of 15A per side since they both plugs are in the same circuit. Is that right?

Also, if I am overloading a specific channel, then it would blow a fuse in the LOR controller. This has not happened, so we are definitely overloading the circuit somehow. This did not happen at all the first several nights of just lights on. It started after combining some motors on one channel and there was rain, so maybe there is a short causing an extra load or resistance from being wet. I am no where near an expert on electricity.

Thanks

[cyberfix]

D&G Gillespie wrote:

Had the same problem about two weeks ago get rid of the motors and the blowers and everything should work it did for me all you have to do is unplug the motors the lights will still work that one baffeled me for a long time, good luck

Thanks for the suggestion. It seems that the posts you referenced talk about not having motors on circuits that are flashing, etc. I have the motors on channels that stay on both in the show and in the animation sequences. I guess there is a slim possibility, I have a channel assigned incorrectly or a cord wrong and it could be on a blinking channel. I will try to verify that by pluggina string of lights into it and see if they stay on or are controlled. If that is not the problem, then I will see about moving it to its own circuit.

[iresq]

cyberfix wrote:

I have a 30A breaker that my room mate and I installed with outlets in the soffits. These are only for the LOR controllers. If I understand you correctly, then we are only getting 15A for all 16 channels instead of 15A per side since they both plugs are in the same circuit. Is that right?

Also, if I am overloading a specific channel, then it would blow a fuse in the LOR controller. This has not happened, so we are definitely overloading the circuit somehow. This did not happen at all the first several nights of just lights on. It started after combining some motors on one channel and there was rain, so maybe there is a short causing an extra load or resistance from being wet. I am no where near an expert on electricity.

Thanks

As for your power, you are now in an area where I feel uncomfortable giving you advice. I would ask if your of a 30 amp service is up to code? I would suspect not.

Are your outlets GFCI protected? Asked earlier, are you throwing your circuit breaker or tripping your GFCI? Totally different animals.

For the second part, sides of the board are protected by fuses, not individual channels. It is possible to overdrive a channel to failure prior to blowing a fuse. Again, get a kill-o-watt and remove all doubt.

[cyberfix]

iresq wrote:

As for your power, you are now in an area where I feel uncomfortable giving you advice. I would ask if your of a 30 amp service is up to code? I would suspect not.

Are your outlets GFCI protected? Asked earlier, are you throwing your circuit breaker or tripping your GFCI? Totally different animals.

For the second part, sides of the board are protected by fuses, not individual channels. It is possible to overdrive a channel to failure prior to blowing a fuse. Again, get a kill-o-watt and remove all doubt.

The plugs were installed properly. The outlets are not GFCI protected. It is throwing the actual breaker. I think I may have found the culprit. I forgot that I added motion flood lights to the circuits. I wanted to deter any vandalism and have this only have power after the last show plays, but the lights are still on for a couple of more hours. When I was getting something in the back yard, one light turned on. A minute or so later, the breaker had flipped. The flood lights are 500 watt halogen. I will have to look up the amperage on them and move them to stand alone timers. They are only temporary for the holiday season.

Thanks for you help and suggestions. I think I will have to get a kill-o-watt as I have seen them at Frys, but keep putting it off.

Anybody know anything about my sequence questions? How does the triggers work. If I am selecting the "Open" switch selctions, does that mean it expects and open switch normally or that when a switch is open it will trigger the show (normally closed)?

[Max-Paul]

cyberfix wrote:

I have a 30A breaker that my room mate and I installed with outlets in the soffits. These are only for the LOR controllers. If I understand you correctly, then we are only getting 15A for all 16 channels instead of 15A per side since they both plugs are in the same circuit. Is that right?

Also, if I am overloading a specific channel, then it would blow a fuse in the LOR controller. This has not happened, so we are definitely overloading the circuit somehow. This did not happen at all the first several nights of just lights on. It started after combining some motors on one channel and there was rain, so maybe there is a short causing an extra load or resistance from being wet. I am no where near an expert on electricity.

Thanks

If you have a 30 amp breaker and at least 10 ga wire to the outlet and the outlet is rated for 30 amps. Then by plugging in both cords you should be able to draw about 30 amps. 15 amps to both sides. Now, please note, the fuse will not blow if you are drawing more than 8 amps on one channel. Provided the other 7 channels are not summing up to the total of 15 amps along with the one channel that is more than 8 amps. I think an example of what I am trying to say is this. Channel 1 is drawing 10 amps and channel 2 is drawing 1 amp and channel 4 is drawing 3 amps. all other channels are off. The total draw in this example is 14 amps. This is less than 15 and the fuse will not pop. BUT channel one is drawing more than 8 amps. This could pop the triac so it is always on. But the real problem is that the copper trace on the circuit board might melt rendering that channel bad for life of the board. And yes for anyone that wants to say "But cant you repair the burnt out copper trace"? Yes it can be repaired if you are familiar with that kind of work.

I Fully agree, you need a kill a watt meter that can be picked up at Lowes or Home Depot as some have reported. I am running LEDs so I really do not see a need for one. But if you are using motors or the old filiment type bulbs. You seriously need some way of checking the current draw of your display. I also recommend that you install supressors on the motors so that any CEMF (counter electro motive force) does not pop your Triac.

[iresq]

500 watts = 4.5 amps.

watts = amps * volts
amps = watts/volts

I am not an electrician but would suggest that your non-GFCI outlet wired with unknown gauge wire to a 30 amp circuit breaker is not to code.

I am, however, a firefighter and have personally scene the results of improper wiring. Please make sure your smoke detectors have fresh batteries.

[cmoore60]

cyberfix wrote:

The plugs were installed properly. The outlets are not GFCI protected. It is throwing the actual breaker. I think I may have found the culprit. I forgot that I added motion flood lights to the circuits. I wanted to deter any vandalism and have this only have power after the last show plays, but the lights are still on for a couple of more hours. When I was getting something in the back yard, one light turned on. A minute or so later, the breaker had flipped. The flood lights are 500 watt halogen. I will have to look up the amperage on them and move them to stand alone timers. They are only temporary for the holiday season.

Thanks for you help and suggestions. I think I will have to get a kill-o-watt as I have seen them at Frys, but keep putting it off.

Anybody know anything about my sequence questions? How does the triggers work. If I am selecting the "Open" switch selctions, does that mean it expects and open switch normally or that when a switch is open it will trigger the show (normally closed)?

If you used a standard duplex receptacle for this circuit it is not installed properly. The duplex receptacles come in 2 flavors that I know. A 15 amp version where both blades are parallel to each other. And a 20 amp version where one of the blades is perpendicular to the other, usually on a 20 amp version they are made to accept a 15 amp plug or the 20 amp plug.

I think you need to verify your wiring.

Chuck