S2 and Relay problems???

[PaulXmas]

Jeff Millard wrote:

PaulXmas wrote:

Can anyone tell me how I should wire this thing?

There are two terminals for the coil. As long as the coil is 110 to 125vac, connect it to the output of an LOR channel. The channel is to be turned on, or off. No dimming allowed here. Then you can use the terminals from the mechanical contacts to trigger your device. As was stated in previous posts, there can be problems with an inductive load. The most common fix for this is to place a single C9 bulb in parallel with the coil of the relay. When the LOR channel turns off and the magnetic field around the relay coil collapses, the C9 will 'absorb' the energy rather than the LOR channel.

I would also suggest that you look into the LOR DIO32 and the daughter boards that will eventually be available on the LOR website. There's a card with mechanical relays, and this system was designed with this purpose in mind.

Jeff

There are 8 terminals

I have attached a photo

Do I run the power from the controller to A and B?
Then I have 2 circuits for my lights run my HOT to and from the relay 7 1 and 9 3? This should leave lights on until I apply power to the relay?

Sorry I don't want to burn out the relay and scare the &^%%^ outta me!




Attached files

[PaulXmas]

Jeff Millard wrote:

This post is not meant to offend anyone, or seem condescending in any way. I am just going to explain it in the simplest terms I can muster so as to include even the most inexperienced in the use of this device.

This relay is an electromechanical device. The coil is an electromagnet, that when energized pulls an armature towards it. That armature has moving contacts that change stae when the coil is energized. In your drawing the A and B connections are the relay coil (or electromagnet) That is where you would connect the outputs from an LOR channel. Once again, This is strictly 100%/0% or on/off. No dimming.

When energized, the contacts will either open or close (turn off, or on) There are two sets of contacts available for use. There is a common for each set, an N/C and an N/O contact. This means that there will be an electrical connection between the N/C and common when the relay is not energized. That will disconnect when the coil is energized and the N/O contact will connect. As I said, there is a set of these in this realy. (I'm at work and I have to leave the property now... I'll check back later if there are any more questions...)

Jeff

^&@*^@*^*@^

LOL perfect answer!
You cleared up a few things for me!
I now know This relay will control 2 circuits and how to wire it up.
I assumed it was hot (black wire) that was connected (I was wrong)
It is the same as a light switch connect the white wires to the relay.

Thanks a bunch and have a Merry Xmas :-)
I have a very healthy respect for electricity and will ready to run when I test this.
I think I will buy one more

[Steven]

Some of you may wonder why a relay, transformer, motor, or any device with a coil can only be 100% or off. You may also wonder what happens if I try to fade it or set it at 50% intensity.

The way a LOR controller, or most AC dimming circuits work, is to switch the current on and off 120 times a second. 50% leaves the current off half of the time.

A coil, in a relay, transformer, motor, or solenoid actually stores energy when current is flowing through it. The energy is stored as a magnetic field in the core of the coil (usually iron). If this current is suddenly switched off, the magnetic field collapses, and this energy has to go somewhere. If there is no low resistance path to dissipate the energy, the it will generate a high voltage across the high resistance.

This is how the ignition coil in a gasoline engine generates a big spark with just 12 volts.

Imagine that high voltage flowing back to the controller 120 times a second.

In practice, the LOR controllers have protective circuits to prevent them from damage if a circuit with a coil is connected while dimmed. Instead the coil is usually what gets damaged.

I had a 24-volt transformer connected to a channel, and accidentally had some fades. When it stopped working, I took it apart and found some parts that had actually melted.

[PaulXmas]

Steven wrote:

Some of you may wonder why a relay, transformer, motor, or any device with a coil can only be 100% or off. You may also wonder what happens if I try to fade it or set it at 50% intensity.

The way a LOR controller, or most AC dimming circuits work, is to switch the current on and off 120 times a second. 50% leaves the current off half of the time.

A coil, in a relay, transformer, motor, or solenoid actually stores energy when current is flowing through it. The energy is stored as a magnetic field in the core of the coil (usually iron). If this current is suddenly switched off, the magnetic field collapses, and this energy has to go somewhere. If there is no low resistance path to dissipate the energy, the it will generate a high voltage across the high resistance.

This is how the ignition coil in a gasoline engine generates a big spark with just 12 volts.

Imagine that high voltage flowing back to the controller 120 times a second.

In practice, the LOR controllers have protective circuits to prevent them from damage if a circuit with a coil is connected while dimmed. Instead the coil is usually what gets damaged.

I had a 24-volt transformer connected to a channel, and accidentally had some fades. When it stopped working, I took it apart and found some parts that had actually melted.

Oh I understand the relays can't do any of the fancy stuff just turn off and on but it is perfect for what I need for this year...
I am getting at least 2 more controllers next year to take care of these extra lights.
I will find some other use for the relays next year.

[Steven]

thebaronn wrote:

And actually that is pretty cheap! do you have the parts numbers handy?

I just stopped by Halted to get some prices. (And no matter what, if you haven't shopped there before, you need to! Although it's a bit of a drive from your new house.)

I found a box of 5.5vdc wall-warts for $1.95 each. (old Atari power supplies.)
15vac wall-warts for $1.00 each. (SKU 80558)

6v DPST reed relay for $1.75 each. (The contacts may not handle 120v, but it's worth a try.)

6v SPDT relay for $3.00.
5v 4PDT for $3.50.
5v SPDT for $2.50.
5v SSR with 120v output for $4.50.

Since it's a surplus store, some of the parts don't have SKU numbers. It's worth a browse.

[cmoore60]

PaulXmas wrote:

Jeff


^&@*^@*^*@^

LOL perfect answer!
You cleared up a few things for me!
I now know This relay will control 2 circuits and how to wire it up.
I assumed it was hot (black wire) that was connected (I was wrong)
It is the same as a light switch connect the white wires to the relay.

Thanks a bunch and have a Merry Xmas :-)
I have a very healthy respect for electricity and will ready to run when I test this.
I think I will buy one more

You need to interrupt the BLACK (HOT) wire with the contacts of the relay. If you have light switches connected on the white wire, you need to be very careful as this is dangerous.

If your light switch is wire to interrupt the white (neutral) wire then the light bulb has power on it at all times, until the switch is closed. I think you can figure out that interrupting the black(hot) wire is the proper way. The hot side stay at the switch until it is closed. This is the basic premise of switches. Granted there are times when you might connect a white wire to a switch as in the case of the switch leg. BUT the code really requires that the color be changed. This change can be done with wrapping all exposed insulation with black tape.

Sorry for going into such detail. But I do not want to hear of a fellow enthusiast getting electrocuted because of an assumption that power was not on when indeed the power was there and their body completed the circuit.

Chuck

[PaulXmas]

cmoore60 wrote:

PaulXmas wrote:

Jeff


^&@*^@*^*@^

LOL perfect answer!
You cleared up a few things for me!
I now know This relay will control 2 circuits and how to wire it up.
I assumed it was hot (black wire) that was connected (I was wrong)
It is the same as a light switch connect the white wires to the relay.

Thanks a bunch and have a Merry Xmas :-)
I have a very healthy respect for electricity and will ready to run when I test this.
I think I will buy one more

You need to interrupt the BLACK (HOT) wire with the contacts of the relay. If you have light switches connected on the white wire, you need to be very careful as this is dangerous.

If your light switch is wire to interrupt the white (neutral) wire then the light bulb has power on it at all times, until the switch is closed. I think you can figure out that interrupting the black(hot) wire is the proper way. The hot side stay at the switch until it is closed. This is the basic premise of switches. Granted there are times when you might connect a white wire to a switch as in the case of the switch leg. BUT the code really requires that the color be changed. This change can be done with wrapping all exposed insulation with black tape.

Sorry for going into such detail. But I do not want to hear of a fellow enthusiast getting electrocuted because of an assumption that power was not on when indeed the power was there and their body completed the circuit.

Chuck

Brain fart...I read wrong or something.

Thanks a bunch!

[doublea]

Steven wrote:

Earlier, I was shopping for a relay to use with my fog machine at Halted Electronics, I found that a 6-volt relay + a 6-volt wall-wart power supply was cheaper than a 120-volt relay. So I wired my fog machine using that. It has been working fine so far in my tests.

Best Store ever, well ours is way smaller, Halted has another store up in the north bay, nice little local company. Has everything I will ever need.

[thebaronn]

Hello! Halloween went well and the relay problem was a non-issue.

It is a 8min video, but if you fast forward to 3:50 you will see the cannons fire and the crowd go wild!!

That you all for you ideas and help with this issue!

Eric

[Joe2000]

Whaaaahhhooooo Eric that's fantastic. Great show!!
I'll have to drive there next year if I can. Do you have the show going other than on just Halloween day?
Thanks again beautiful!!!

Joe

[thebaronn]

Joe2000 wrote:

Whaaaahhhooooo Eric that's fantastic. Great show!!
I'll have to drive there next year if I can. Do you have the show going other than on just Halloween day?
Thanks again beautiful!!!

Joe

Thank you! The lights with music go 2 weeks before Halloween.

The live show is only Halloween night!

But we have 2 years to plan for the next one, because next year we won't be there, we will be renewing our vows on our 10year anniversary!