S2 and Relay problems???

[thebaronn]

I really had no clue where to put this, but since S2 doesn't seem to like my relay I will try here.

So I need to control 8 foggers individually, but this year I want to use LOR.

I have the following relay from allelectronics: http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/4PRLY-120L/120VAC-4PDT-KH-RELAY-W/-LED/-/1.html

(which actually isn't what I ordered, but they considered it a free upgrade)

So I wired the bad boy up and plugged my fogger in. I first tried it with my house socket that is controlled by a light switch. It worked just fine. The fog started when I flipped the switch and stopped when I turned it off.

Ok, so I now decided to hook up the LOR.

On my particular fogger there are 3 wires, white, black and green (when I ripped apart the manual controller) the only combination that made the fogger work was white and green. So I wired up the relay.

There are four rows of connections

1st row: 2 connections for the power

2nd through 4th: 4 connections, you can control 4 items from the same relay and a column of 3 work together.

So connected power to the top 2.

And iin the first column I used the top 2 and left the bottom open (I have included a bad pucture of the wiring diagram on the relay housing)

I am running 2.3.8 with a 1602W contoller on a machine that has windows vista (that has never given me any trouble before)

I made a quick sequence of .1sec on every 4 sec. S2 froze after the fog went off, about 1/2 from the initial "on" setting. It froze so good that for the first time ever I haven't been able to force quit the program. So i restarted my computer.

This time I tried something different. I made a sequence that went up in intensity (for a 1/10 sec interval) 10%.........20%......etc and it still froze.

I restarted the computer. This time i went for fades. 1/2 sec 100%-0% fades. It worked on the first 2 (which is further than ever) but froze after the 3rd.

So now I am asking for input!

Did I wire it correctly? Why doesn't LOR like my relay? It worked just fine using a regular wall socket.

HELP!

Thank you

Eric


Edit: I decided to try it with the LOR Hardware Utility. I have turned the fogger on and off a dozen times and it works fine and then it froze on number 14.....

Attached files .JPG"]

[JBullard]

Just a clairification. Are you using different intensities on the COIL of the relay?

If so,

An electro-mechanical relay should be operated as on / off only on a LOR channel at 100%. Not sure why it would freeze the software, but couldn't be good for the triacs on the controller.

[thebaronn]

JBullard wrote:

Just a clairification. Are you using different intensities on the COIL of the relay?

If so,

An electro-mechanical relay should be operated as on / off only on a LOR channel at 100%. Not sure why it would freeze the software, but couldn't be good for the triacs on the controller.

At first all my trials were using 100% intensities.

On following trials i used intensities (the relay oly switched once the intesity reached 50%, never even flinched 0-50%) And nothing changed, S2 still froze.

Then I tried the fades to no avail.

[JBullard]

Its been quite awhile since I activly worked in the electronics industry so my terminology might be a little weak, but the relay is an INDUCTIVE load, it builds a magnetic field when power is applied and then can unlease a current back-surge when power is removed and the magnetic field colaspes, not good for the triacs.

Try using a SSR (solid state relay) instead of an electro-mechanical one and your results may be different, but only at 100% intensity.

Relays also don't respond too well to quick ons and offs either.

[Donald Puryear]

I've been using relays for 3 years. I found the best relay to use is a RIB. Part no. RIB2401b (http://www.functionaldevices.com/pdf/RIB2401B.pdf). These seem to work well.

[thebaronn]

Donald Puryear wrote:

I've been using relays for 3 years. I found the best relay to use is a RIB. Part no. RIB2401b (http://www.functionaldevices.com/pdf/RIB2401B.pdf). These seem to work well.

And will this work for my fogger application, i'm not exactly and en electronics genuis.

[thebaronn]

I do not know if it matters, but in en effort to give all the information.

If the fogger is off and I run the sequence, it runs just fine for the entire minute. I can here the relay clicking on and off as well as see the indicator LED.

S2 seems to only freeze when the fogger is warm enough to produce fog.

[Donald Puryear]

I used 2 last year with my fog machines. Try adding a single c9 or a string of mini's to the same circuit as the relay. This may solve your problem.

[thebaronn]

ohhhhh, thanks I will try that.

So far it appears that the problem is with the comm port.

I used the hardware utility and it froze. I was able to force quit and start it again and the comm port was "in use" still.......

[thebaronn]

Donald Puryear wrote:

I used 2 last year with my fog machines. Try adding a single c9 or a string of mini's to the same circuit as the relay. This may solve your problem.

What is the shortest interval that you used the relay?

I may have found the problem is too short a bust on the relay as JBullard stated (they do not like it)

I made a sequence that had the relay trip for 1 full second. And it worked.

I shortened it to 1/2 sec and S2 froze.

Im going to run it again in a few.

Update: I ran it again with 1 sec on. S2 froze right away.

[thebaronn]

Toymakr000 and Max-Paul

I took their advice advice and removed the fogger from the outlet and used an extension cord(I happen to have a few) and placed it on another breaker.
Then I started it again. It froze, then I remembered that I have 3 foggers running hot that I have been switching back and forth from. I unplugged all of them! I plugged the only type of fogger I want use and ran the program again.

It is on a 1 minute loop that has been running with no freezing for the past 5 minutes!

Lets hope for the best!
Thank you all!
Eric

[Steven]

Earlier, I was shopping for a relay to use with my fog machine at Halted Electronics, I found that a 6-volt relay + a 6-volt wall-wart power supply was cheaper than a 120-volt relay. So I wired my fog machine using that. It has been working fine so far in my tests.

[thebaronn]

How did you manage that?

I thought I got my relays on the cheap at $2.75 each!

Of course whether they work or not over the long haul, remains to be seen.

[Steven]

I didn't mean to say that the relay + wall-wart combination I bought was cheaper than the relays you bought, just that it was cheaper than the 120-volt alternative I saw at the time.

I can't remember what I paid, but it was something like $2.50 for the wall-wart and $1 for the relay. Compared to something more for the 120-volt relay.

[thebaronn]

Steven wrote:

I didn't mean to say that the relay + wall-wart combination I bought was cheaper than the relays you bought, just that it was cheaper than the 120-volt alternative I saw at the time.

I can't remember what I paid, but it was something like $2.50 for the wall-wart and $1 for the relay. Compared to something more for the 120-volt relay.

I was actually hoping you did!!!!! Because I would have to get the same thing!!

And actually that is pretty cheap! do you have the parts numbers handy?

Mine may not be cheaper if it costs me a 1602W:shock:

[Vic Fortenbach]

Hi,

I don't know all the details, and I have only read from what you and others posted above, but here are my guess on how to fix this problem.

I have seen relays triggered from all types of LOR equipment, so I don't think the problem is with the LOR board (or computer for that matter). That leaves the fogger or the relay.

I have never seen a relay WITH an LED light (indicator) inside the case. Most of the time, an indicator is designed OUTSIDE the relay. The LED might be causing interference on the control line coming from the LOR board. Try removing the LED.

You can pull off the clear plastic case of the relay and use some small clippers to carefully clip the LED wire out of the circuit. By the looks of the picture, the LED is connected across the power input of the relay coil.

Just my .0002 cents

[PaulXmas]

I am thinking of using relays on my displays.
BUT I have no experience with them..
Do they power things ON when the controller sends current to the relay?
Plus how responsive are they? I was going to use X10 modules but they are slow and could have a few seconds delay.
I will be running a small display over Halloween and can test the X10 and or relays then.

Thanks in advance

[PaulXmas]

OK I bought one relay today
http://www.ab.com/industrialcontrols/products/relays_timers_and_temp_controllers/general_purpose_relays/700-hb.html

Can anyone tell me how I should wire this thing?

[bisquit476]

Carefully!!

Sorry, couldn't resist

[thebaronn]

Jeff Millard wrote:

PaulXmas wrote:

Can anyone tell me how I should wire this thing?

There are two terminals for the coil. As long as the coil is 110 to 125vac, connect it to the output of an LOR channel. The channel is to be turned on, or off. No dimming allowed here. Then you can use the terminals from the mechanical contacts to trigger your device. As was stated in previous posts, there can be problems with an inductive load. The most common fix for this is to place a single C9 bulb in parallel with the coil of the relay. When the LOR channel turns off and the magnetic field around the relay coil collapses, the C9 will 'absorb' the energy rather than the LOR channel.

I would also suggest that you look into the LOR DIO32 and the daughter boards that will eventually be available on the LOR website. There's a card with mechanical relays, and this system was designed with this purpose in mind.

Jeff

the DIO board is something that I have been waiting a long time for. I would much rather use that, but it doesn't look like it will be here for Halloween