S2 Licensing Important Information

[LightORamaDan]

I made a mistake the other day when I posted how the new S2 license worked. I have been informed that I was only partially correct. I should know what the rules are. I was there when we put the plan together and understood what the rules were and why they were made that way. But I forgot. This information will be reviewed by others prior to release.

As I was reminded, this is the way Licensing was designed and engineered:

Different levels: For existing LOR I customers, this doesn’t have much meaning because you get the highest level and all features. This is a common concept and probably needs little detailed explanation; a higher level license turns on more features.

We have a Demo Level of the software. It is the same as the Basic Version except that you cannot control lights. You can save sequences you have made, setup shows, run shows, etc., but you cannot control lights. Unlike the old LOR I Demo which contained only the sequence editor, this demo is the entire software suite. As before, the Demo never expires.

There is one thing about license levels that may be a little confusing and is a little less common. A particular license level may have individual features that are in Demo Mode. For example, “Automatic Beat Detection” runs in Demo Mode in the Basic Version and the Demo Version of the software. So in those two versions of the software, you can get a demonstration of Automatic Beat Detection, but you will not be able to save changes to a sequence once you have used the Automatic Beat Detection. This way, people can see how it works and then make a decision if they want that feature before they purchase it.

Software Expiration: This is simple, the software and license never expire. You will always be able to use your software.

Upgrade Policy: This is where I messed up. We will be making minor fixes such as bug fixes or anything else that we consider minor releases. For example, going from 2.3.4 to 2.3.6 is a minor release. Those types of fixes are always free. At some point in time, years down the road we may stop supporting a particular release of software. That doesn’t mean that it stops working, it just means that we will stop fixing bugs in it (however, once a version of software is years old and has had constant maintenance, it is much less likely to have problems).

New “major” changes -- say we add a new visualizer for example -- would go into a major release. Those major releases will be free for one year from your purchase date (all S2 owners have a purchase date of 6/16/2009 or later). So everyone will get all major enhancements until at least 6/17/2010 (or one year from their date of purchase).

After one year, if a new major release is made that you really want to use then you will need to renew your license. When you renew your license, you get one year of updates from the renewal date. The license renewal fee will be small and it is only required if you want to get major releases after a year.

This license policy is fairly common. It provides businesses with the capital necessary to add new features to the software.

My Mistake: In the previous description of Licensing I said that only major releases such as going from 2.x.x to 3.x.x would be considered a major update. That was incorrect. Upgrades at the second digit are considered major upgrades. We plan to continue following the scheme we have done in the past where the change from 1 to 2 was huge.

If we went with a policy of only considering huge releases as major upgrades, there would be temptation to hold back enhancements so that we could put together something that we could call a major release. To the contrary, we plan to start making releases of features more frequent than we have done in the past. A year from now we will list all of the improvements made and I assure you it will look like a major release. Of course you will get them all for free.

[Denny]

Sounds more than fair to me.

[rgardner518]

LightORamaDan wrote:

I made a mistake the other day when I posted how the new S2 license worked. I have been informed that I was only partially correct. I should know what the rules are. I was there when we put the plan together and understood what the rules were and why they were made that way. But I forgot. This information will be reviewed by others prior to release.

As I was reminded, this is the way Licensing was designed and engineered:

Different levels: For existing LOR I customers, this doesn’t have much meaning because you get the highest level and all features. This is a common concept and probably needs little detailed explanation; a higher level license turns on more features.

We have a Demo Level of the software. It is the same as the Basic Version except that you cannot control lights. You can save sequences you have made, setup shows, run shows, etc., but you cannot control lights. Unlike the old LOR I Demo which contained only the sequence editor, this demo is the entire software suite. As before, the Demo never expires.

There is one thing about license levels that may be a little confusing and is a little less common. A particular license level may have individual features that are in Demo Mode. For example, “Automatic Beat Detection” runs in Demo Mode in the Basic Version and the Demo Version of the software. So in those two versions of the software, you can get a demonstration of Automatic Beat Detection, but you will not be able to save changes to a sequence once you have used the Automatic Beat Detection. This way, people can see how it works and then make a decision if they want that feature before they purchase it.

Software Expiration: This is simple, the software and license never expire. You will always be able to use your software.

Upgrade Policy: This is where I messed up. We will be making minor fixes such as bug fixes or anything else that we consider minor releases. For example, going from 2.3.4 to 2.3.6 is a minor release. Those types of fixes are always free. At some point in time, years down the road we may stop supporting a particular release of software. That doesn’t mean that it stops working, it just means that we will stop fixing bugs in it (however, once a version of software is years old and has had constant maintenance, it is much less likely to have problems).

New “major” changes -- say we add a new visualizer for example -- would go into a major release. Those major releases will be free for one year from your purchase date (all S2 owners have a purchase date of 6/16/2009 or later). So everyone will get all major enhancements until at least 6/17/2010 (or one year from their date of purchase).

After one year, if a new major release is made that you really want to use then you will need to renew your license. When you renew your license, you get one year of updates from the renewal date. The license renewal fee will be small and it is only required if you want to get major releases after a year.

This license policy is fairly common. It provides businesses with the capital necessary to add new features to the software.

My Mistake: In the previous description of Licensing I said that only major releases such as going from 2.x.x to 3.x.x would be considered a major update. That was incorrect. Upgrades at the second digit are considered major upgrades. We plan to continue following the scheme we have done in the past where the change from 1 to 2 was huge.

If we went with a policy of only considering huge releases as major upgrades, there would be temptation to hold back enhancements so that we could put together something that we could call a major release. To the contrary, we plan to start making releases of features more frequent than we have done in the past. A year from now we will list all of the improvements made and I assure you it will look like a major release. Of course you will get them all for free.

I understand now. I just sent you and bob a PM asking what this answered. You should put this on the software page in some way. May the FAQ's section. This is very helpful in knowing.

[John (oldandslow)]

Dan, I have 2.3.8 basic plus and have not downloaded any updates. I plan to buy the next level in July. My question is, should I download all the updates or will they be included in my upgrade?

[Don]

John (oldandslow) wrote:

Dan, I have 2.3.8 basic plus and have not downloaded any updates. I plan to buy the next level in July. My question is, should I download all the updates or will they be included in my upgrade?

I'm not Dan, but ...

They would be included in your upgrade, yes. In fact, if you kept the same 2.3.8 version that you have and upgraded the license, you would get access to the additional features. (In reality, I would suggest going ahead and upgrading now. At least you will have any bug fixes, etc, loaded into your computer.)

[John (oldandslow)]

Thanks for the quick reply. I haven't had any problems (other than operator errors) and I was afraid that I would mess up the three songs that I did last year.

I will definitely get the next level

[Don]

Quite welcome. As with any upgrade, backup your sequences first. I've never had a problem, but someone has to be the first. (Might as well not be you!)

[friskybri]

LightORamaDan wrote:

After one year, if a new major release is made that you really want to use then you will need to renew your license. When you renew your license, you get one year of updates from the renewal date. The license renewal fee will be small and it is only required if you want to get major releases after a year.

This license policy is fairly common. It provides businesses with the capital necessary to add new features to the software.

I couldn't find the info anywhere on the website. I apologize in advance if I missed it. So the question is. What is the cost of the renewal? If you let your license expire say for a year and then want to renew your license will it be different cost? These hopefully should have been known last year when the idea came up to license per year.

[rwertz]

friskybri wrote:

I couldn't find the info anywhere on the website. I apologize in advance if I missed it. So the question is. What is the cost of the renewal? If you let your license expire say for a year and then want to renew your license will it be different cost? These hopefully should have been known last year when the idea came up to license per year.

The license you have for the current software you have should never expire. Here is Dan's quote from above.

LightORamaDan wrote:

Software Expiration: This is simple, the software and license never expire. You will always be able to use your software.

But if LOR makes a major update to the program, there could be a charge to upgrade to the newer version (if you want the newer features).

[bob]

Just to clear up a little something, there has been a change to the way this works since the time that Dan wrote all that up. It's a change that is, from the customer's point of view, a benefit without a drawback.

Several things that Dan said are still accurate:

• Your license is good forever for any version that it is ever good for. For example, if you can use your license with version 2.7.6 right now, you will always be able to use your license with version 2.7.6.
  

• Your license is good for whatever version happens to be the latest version at the time that you purchase the license. For example, if you purchase a license today, and the latest version is version 2.7.6, then your license is good for version 2.7.6 (forever).

• In addition to that, your license is also good for any version that we release within a year of your purchase. For example, if you purchase a license for version 2.7.6, and within a year from today we release version 2.10.4, then your license is good for version 2.10.4 (forever).
  

• In addition to that, if your license is good for some version A.B.C, then your license is also good for every version that starts with "A.B.". For example, if your license is good for version 2.10.4, then it is also good for version 2.10.6, 2.10.8, 2.10.10, and so on (forever).

All those things are the same as they always have been. The additional change is this:

• In addition to being good for any version released within a year of your purchase, it's also good for at least six changes to "B" (in "A.B.C"), no matter when they are released (forever).

So, for example, if you purchase your license today, it's good for version 2.7.6, because that's the latest version that's currently available. And just like before, if we release version 2.8 within a year, it's good for 2.8, too. And if we release version 2.9, or 2.10, or 2.13, or 2.9999 within a year, it's good for all of those, too. Anything we release within a year of your purchase, it's good for, just like before.

But let's say that we only wind up releasing 2.9 within a year of your purchase. Previously, your license would have only been good for versions up to 2.9, but not any later release (like 2.10), because they didn't happen within a year of your purchase.

But now, your license is good for at least up until version 2.13, no matter when we release version 2.13, because you purchased a license for version 2.7, and 13 is six more than 7.

So if you buy a license today, which covers version 2.7, then your license is good for version 2.13 even if we don't release version 2.13 until years and years from now.

[friskybri]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I understand my software that I currently use will not expire but I ask again sense my questions was still not answered. What is the small fee to upgrade to the new version after that year. Is it the full price of the software again? Say in 2 years i want to update my software what is the charge. IS IT THE FULL PRICE? You say small charge what is the charge?

[bob]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I was trying to answer your question - I was just trying to make it clear to anyone who reads this thread in the future that the information written by Dan at the top of it is no longer 100% accurate, so as to prevent any possible confusion.

The reason that I wasn't trying to answer your question is that I am not qualified to speak on LOR's pricing structure.

However, I have just found the following quote from Dan, from about a month ago:

We have not come up with the renewal price but it will be tiered based on license level. For advanced I expect that it will be less than $30. To reiterate, you do not need to purchase a license renewal. It is optional and your software will continue to run using your original license. You only need to renew your license if you want a feature in a major release and have already owned the software for more than a year.

This quote comes from his post in the following thread:

http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=22114&forum_id=72

[LightORamaDan]

friskybri wrote:

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I understand my software that I currently use will not expire but I ask again sense my questions was still not answered. What is the small fee to upgrade to the new version after that year. Is it the full price of the software again? Say in 2 years i want to update my software what is the charge. IS IT THE FULL PRICE? You say small charge what is the charge?

Hi,

We do not have the price selected yet but I think about 1/4 the current price.

Dan

[Greg]

Not sure if this was asked.

Say I let my license expire for a year or two, and I skip release 2.10/2.11 because I don't see a need for any new features those offer. Now 2.12 comes out with a feture I like, If I renew my license I am assuming I cannot get the fetures released on version 2.10 and 2.11 is that correct.

[rgardner518]

I understand now. Because in July 09 I bought the advance copy and it was version 2.3.6, in the first year now matter how many times the 3 or 6 changes i get all updates. But after the 1st year, I'm only cover up to the point the 3 turns to a 9. No matter what the 6 turns into, even after the 3 turns to a 9. Right? Even if this happens 5 years from now. I'm covered. Its when the 3 turns to a 10, that if I want to be covered again for another year, I'd have to pay a renewal fee. BUT, its not not required, EVER! Unless I want to at a later time.

Now I have the current version 2.7.6, and July is right around the corner. so when the year ends for me I'm still cover! Now, that puts me at ease!

Thanks Dan and Bob. I'm sure this will be coming up alot. good luck.

[bob]

Say I let my license expire for a year or two, and I skip release 2.10/2.11 because I don't see a need for any new features those offer. Now 2.12 comes out with a feture I like, If I renew my license I am assuming I cannot get the fetures released on version 2.10 and 2.11 is that correct.

No, that's not correct. Your 2.12 will be the same as everyone else's 2.12, no matter whether you or they got 2.11 or not.

Generally speaking, all features added in earlier versions are present in all later versions. So your 2.12 will have all the features that were added in 2.11, regardless of the fact that you never actually installed 2.11.

Hypothetically, we might intentionally remove a feature that we used to have, but (generally speaking) we'd only do that if we're replacing it with something that we think is equivalent and better. And even if so, it wouldn't be present in anybody's 2.12, even if they used to have 2.11.

[LightORamaDan]

Greg wrote:

Not sure if this was asked.

Say I let my license expire for a year or two, and I skip release 2.10/2.11 because I don't see a need for any new features those offer. Now 2.12 comes out with a feture I like, If I renew my license I am assuming I cannot get the fetures released on version 2.10 and 2.11 is that correct.

Greg,

Once you renew your license you will be elegible for all releases. So in your example you will be elegible for 2.10, 2.11 and 2.12...

Dan

[bob]

I understand now. Because in July 09 I bought the advance copy and it was version 2.3.6, in the first year now matter how many times the 3 or 6 changes i get all updates. But after the 1st year, I'm only cover up to the point the 3 turns to a 9. No matter what the 6 turns into, even after the 3 turns to a 9. Right? Even if this happens 5 years from now. I'm covered.

Right.

Its when the 3 turns to a 10, that if I want to be covered again for another year, I'd have to pay a renewal fee.

Right, mostly. The only exception is a good one: If the 3 turns into a 10 (or into anything) before a year from your date of purchase, you're covered for that, too, and for any 2.10.(anything) that we ever release thereafter, no matter when we release it.

BUT, its not not required, EVER! Unless I want to at a later time.

Right.

Now I have the current version 2.7.6, and July is right around the corner. so when the year ends for me I'm still cover! Now, that puts me at ease!

Right - your license is good for version 2.9 even if we don't release it before July.

[Ed P]

Greg wrote:

Not sure if this was asked.

Say I let my license expire for a year or two, and I skip release 2.10/2.11 because I don't see a need for any new features those offer. Now 2.12 comes out with a feture I like, If I renew my license I am assuming I cannot get the fetures released on version 2.10 and 2.11 is that correct.

This example does not make sense to me. For most software development a version 2.12 would include all features of 2.10 and 2.11. So if you paid money to get the most current release, you would have all features incorporated since then.

There would be no need to ever have 2.10 or 2.11, unless there was a bad bug in 2.12. BUT if this happened knowing LOR they would quickly release 2.12.5 or 2.13 to fix problem and you would be entitled to that too.


I wrote all the above without seeing Dan and Bob's reply in which they pretty much said what I said.

Never mind.

[Greg]

I guess I was relating this to my place of employment. If we skip the any new releases on our edit systems when we eventually do renew the registration we are unable to receive any features in the software that we are not "registered" for without paying any additional fees. Sorry If I confused anyone.