Strange garbled distortion from my songs

[redrockford]

Hello, 

    I having been running my set up for several years with very little problems.  I bought a starter package from LOR which includes a mDM-MP3 mini director, three CTB16PCg3 and an sd card with 5 different light shows and music on it.  Also included was a Whole House FM transmitter this was installed in a box wired into the mini director.  Everything has worked very well.  I was called by a viewer and they told me that my music didn't sound very good.  I got in my car and tuned in and sure enough it sounded like kind of an underwater garbled distortion.   So far this is what I have done and not made any improvement at all:

Replaced the cat5 cable from the mini director to first control box,  repositioned the box with the fm transmitter and director away from from house ran the long wire antenna as far away from lights and other devises as I could.  placed ferrite magnets on the cat 5 cable and antenna, tried about 20 different FM frequencies, replaced fm transmitter with a new one, traded out the sd card with a TSO show on it (from LOR),  plugged in a laptop to the fm transmitter on my original frequency it sounded clear, tried a firmware upgrade with the HU and usb485(that did not seem to do anything).  Each step I did was one at a time then test to see if any improvement was noticed.

    My theory now is maybe it is the mini director. ?  I dont mind getting a new one but I am throwing money at this with no improvement so I would like some ideas first.  

Has anyone else had this issue?  I have searched the forums but have not seen anything that is similar to my situation.   

I would greatly appreciate any ideas on what would clear this up.

Thank you

 

[TheDucks]

Distortion is usually caused by to high a level into the transmitter. If the transmitter has a input level control, turn it down some.

You can check the output with headphones

or

DO NOT WEAR when first plugging in. The levels may damage your ears.

Carefully Listen, to see if that is distorted

 

[Mr. P]

Also check the surrounding stations, one up and one down. I had to change my radio station last year after years on the same freq,  due to interference. With your fm transmitter off tune in your freq on a radio and see if the is any transmissions or bleed over from other stations.

[k6ccc]

My standard recommendation for setting audio levels in your FM transmitter without having any access to proper test equipment is to first turn the audio setting on the transmitter all the way down (normally that will result in no audio at all).  Then while playing a loud song, and while listening to your station on your car stereo or a portable FM receiver, SLOWLY turn up the audio level on the transmitter until you hear the audio just starting to distort on the audio peaks.  Then back it down a little.  Listen for a while to make sure it does not distort on audio peaks.  If it does, back down the audio setting on the transmitter a little more.

There are two possible "problems" when doing this, and one note.  First the note.  Almost guarantee that it will not sound as loud as your local FM broadcast station.  I can explain why not if you really want to know.

Problem #1.  If you find using the above procedure that even when the audio level setting on the transmitter is turned all the way up, and you have not heard any distortion, and it is still really quiet, then turn up the audio level at the source (PC or Director (if that is changable).  Then repeat the procedure at the transmitter.

Problem #2.  If you find using the above procedure that you can barely turn up the audio level on the transmitter results in distortion, then turn down the audio level at the source and repeat the procedure at the transmitter.

Last thing is that all this assumes that the audio being sent to the transmitter is clean.  If the audio is getting distorted before it gets to the transmitter, the transmitter can't fix it for you.  Also note that if the connections to your computer or Director, and the FM transmitter are the standard 1/8 inch (3.5mm) phone plug, you can not get away with a long cable between the audio source and the transmitter.  If you really need to go 200 feet, it can be done, but very unlikely will require some effort.

BTW, this is one of those fields where my professional and volunteer experience as a broadcast radio engineer and audio recording engineer comes in handy.  In the radio broadcast world, audio quality ranks right up there with Godhood.

 

[redrockford]

Thank you all for the replies.   I tried adjusting the volume on the transmitter,  the mini director does not have the ability to adjust anything.  When I changed FM frequency I did search each channel for a unused one with no sound and tried transmitting on those used channels.

k6cc I think what you said is the key.  I think the audio is bad from either the mini director or the wiring from it to the transmitter. They are mounted together in a box and came that way from LOR.  The wiring is kind of rednecked though.  It is a mini usb connection to the transmitter then it is stripped and two strands are used to go into a connection on the mini director.   My question now is could this be the mini director causing the garbled distortion?  Do they go bad or has anyone had a similar problem with one?

 

Thanks again

[Orville]

Jim, Directors have NO volume control of any kind on them, so the only way to adjust the audio output is by using a program like MP3Gain to lower the volume if distortion is an issue on the audio file{s} that are coming out distorted.  Also, my FM Transmitter doesn't have any volume options on it either, it's fixed at whatever level the factory set when they built it.  It's a Mobile Black Box unit, one of their earlier ones they don't make this unit anymore, I think it's a 1000, but not sure of the actual model number.  But know it was in the 1000 series they were offering back around 2010 when I bought it.

15 hours ago, redrockford said:

Thank you all for the replies.   I tried adjusting the volume on the transmitter,  the mini director does not have the ability to adjust anything.  When I changed FM frequency I did search each channel for a unused one with no sound and tried transmitting on those used channels.

k6cc I think what you said is the key.  I think the audio is bad from either the mini director or the wiring from it to the transmitter. They are mounted together in a box and came that way from LOR.  The wiring is kind of rednecked though.  It is a mini usb connection to the transmitter then it is stripped and two strands are used to go into a connection on the mini director.   My question now is could this be the mini director causing the garbled distortion?  Do they go bad or has anyone had a similar problem with one?

 

Thanks again

redrockford, that is possible, Directors can go bad, but I believe the issue may be with your audio files, they may have too high a volume.  I have had this issue with my N4-G4 Director, but the issue was I had set the volume too high in the MP3 files using an audio enhancer program called MP3Gain, the default of 89 in the software I have found to be too high and can cause what you are describing.  I have found if I use a level of 75-78 on my MP3 Files for use in my Director connected to my FM Transmitter, I get a better audio output from the FM Transmitter.  Most often, anything I've used above 80, may get garbled as you describe.

If you have MP3Gain, I'd use it to try lowering the volume on your audio files and try it again.  I usually use Album Gain for this as it makes all the MP3 files the same volume across the board.   If you have an audio editor and increase the volume to boost the MP3 volume, it seems they are more prone to overdrive the audio output, as they use a "Normalizing" process, which tends to cause the garbled or distortion when playing the audio files back on a Director connected to an FM Transmitter.    I've tried both, audio editors and MP3Gain, and MP3Gain always worked to clear up most of my audio issues, but increasing in the audio editor, seems I could never get the correct levels to get a clean sounding audio file.   I don't recall if MP3Gain works on WAV files or any other audio format.   I also found a FREE program called "Free Video Volume Booster" that will lower and raise the volume levels in video files, so if you use videos and have similar issues {I don't use video in my display} you could use this program to lower the volume in them.

I use the Video Volume Booster to increase the volume in the video files I convert from DVD's to digital or purchase that are too low when i play them on my TV or computer, this program also works very well for increasing videos you may play back on your TV or even your computer if they are too soft or tend to be soft, get very loud, then soft again, or vice versa, it does a good job of levelling the volume equally through the entire video.  And it supports a lot of different video formats.

Good Luck on getting your issue resolved.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Orville

[k6ccc]

4 hours ago, Orville said:

Jim, Directors have NO volume control of any kind on them, so the only way to adjust the audio output is by using a program like MP3Gain to lower the volume if distortion is an issue on the audio file{s} that are coming out distorted.  Also, my FM Transmitter doesn't have any volume options on it either, it's fixed at whatever level the factory set when they built it.

That's a really bad combination!

 

[Orville]

23 hours ago, k6ccc said:

That's a really bad combination!

 

I agree.   My MBB isn't a 1000 as I thought, when I opened the box to turn it off, since I rarely use it outside of the Holidays, found out it's the Mobile Black Box Model "Eclipse 4000", when it was new, for the first 2 years I had to put an attenuator{I think that's what it's called} between the antenna and the Transmitter because it was broadcasting way too far.    Now that it's "burned in" so to speak, it's where it should be without the attenuator attached.  The original antenna that it came with was a telescoping antenna, and that antenna would let this thing broadcast over a 5-mile radius!  That would have been big trouble, since that was way beyond what the FCC allows for these things.  It now has a rubber ducky antenna, and that also cut down on the distance it was broadcasting to legal levels.

I wanted to replace it with a different unit this year, but the one that used to be recommended here some time back, think it was an EDM or something, don't recall now, was a very popular unit, but when I went to locate one, seems they aren't made anymore.  At least none that I could find that were stereo output, I found a lot that were mono, but I want to replace mine with one that can broadcast in stereo, not mono!

Any recommendations for a good replacement, one that DOES have a volume out control on it and is a stereo output?

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Orville
Correct mispelled words, some punctuation and typos.

[k6ccc]

EDM is still in business, but like everyone else is having supply chain issues.  They don't have the on-line order section of their website, but according to some reports, they will take an order and can deliver.  However I see that currently they are not even listing a contact E-Mail or phone...  Their website is:  https://www.edmdesign.com/

Search Amazon for CZE-05b or CZH-05b and you will find a few options (used to be more than there are as of late).  I had to replace mine before this past season.  This is the one I bought:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B251XK2R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Did the job...

 

 

[Orville]

5 hours ago, k6ccc said:

EDM is still in business, but like everyone else is having supply chain issues.  They don't have the on-line order section of their website, but according to some reports, they will take an order and can deliver.  However I see that currently they are not even listing a contact E-Mail or phone...  Their website is:  https://www.edmdesign.com/

Search Amazon for CZE-05b or CZH-05b and you will find a few options (used to be more than there are as of late).  I had to replace mine before this past season.  This is the one I bought:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B251XK2R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Did the job...

 

 

Thanks, was hoping EDM's were still available, since I use 87.9, and seems the newer transmitters now start at 88.0.  Checked out the Mobile black Box site, and they have a nice one, to get volume control you have to buy a special audio cable with that feature built into it, but even there new units start at 88.0 now.   Looks like I'm going to have to find a new frequency to use.  Liked the 87.9 because it's getting crowded with stations on the FM band in my area now.   So I started using that one a few years ago, going to be a challenge to find a blank station that my transmitter won't bleed over on a nearby station and have the neighbors complaining.   The EDM seems to be the only one that still makes theirs starting at 87.5FM.  Too bad they don't have additional info if, or when they'll start selling their units again.

Checked out the one you purchased, not too sure about that one, the reviews didn't seem to like that one very much.   So I'm thinking of getting the new Mobile Black Box V6000 for my replacement.  My4000's power input jack has gotten a bit flaky and if I insert it fully, the unit gets no power, I can pull it up slightly and it works, but afraid that may fail in short order.   So looking for a replacement.  They're selling their V6000 for $98 currently, and the volume control cable for $9.00, a little more than the CZE-05B you purchased, but I think I'll give the MBB V6000 a go and see how it works out.

 

[k6ccc]

15 hours ago, Orville said:

Thanks, was hoping EDM's were still available, since I use 87.9, and seems the newer transmitters now start at 88.0.

To be honest, I did not check the one I bought since I use 101.5.  The previous one would go down to something like 77 MHz.

As far as stopping at 88.0, maybe the FCC is finally cracking down on Part 15 transmitters that are allowed to operate outside the Part 15 spectrum.  The frequencies just below 88.0 are not legal for Part 15 operations.

 

[TheDucks]

How many digitally tuned car radios go below 88.0?

[k6ccc]

Maybe it's changed in the last few years, but I have not seen one that did not go down to at least 87.5.

 

[Orville]

2 hours ago, k6ccc said:

Maybe it's changed in the last few years, but I have not seen one that did not go down to at least 87.5.

 

I have friends with brand new cars and their digital tuners still go down to 87.5.  But I think it's only the foreign imports that do, seem to recall one of my friends bought a new 2022 American made vehicle, and it started at 88.0 on their digital tuner.  Because they complained they couldn't tune their vehicle's radio to the frequency I was using, which I thought was odd, all radios that had digital tuners in vehicles I owned, American and imports all could go down to 87.5.

I was reading somewhere about folks using the 87.5 frequency and had also read somewhere, which I thought was a new addendum to the Part 15 FCC rules that they were releasing the lower frequencies below 88.0, but not lower than 87.5 for public use, since the TV stations that used to use those frequencies no longer use them, and they have been lying dormant for quite a few years.   And we have a new commercial radio station on 87.7FM, so that means if American car makers are not allowing the radios to go lower than 88.0, that station may end up non-existent.  It's a Spanish station, but plays a lot of bilingual, Spanish and English songs on it.

Not much gap between the stations from 88.0 to 107.9FM in my area now.  Most I tried to use the transmitter bled over onto them in the radios I tested with it.   I used to use 99.7 years ago, but a station popped up on 97.5, and my radios all picked up my transmitter music bleeding over on it.  So I had to quit using it.  Never had any bleed-over issues with the 87.7 station.

I may have to go to external only speakers if I can't find a channel frequency I can use without any bleed-over on the neighboring channels, which isn't permitted under the FCC regulations. 

Too bad, that the FCC wouldn't at least give folks that use these transmitters one section of the FM band that would be reserved specifically for this type of use and have a gap, so they didn't interfere with the commercial broadcasters.  Would be nice, but probably only a dream that'll never come to fruition.

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Orville
shoed FCC as FFC in a couple of spots. Didn't catch those on the first proof-read through.

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, Orville said:

I was reading somewhere about folks using the 87.5 frequency and had also read somewhere, which I thought was a new addendum to the Part 15 FCC rules that they were releasing the lower frequencies below 88.0, but not lower than 87.5 for public use, since the TV stations that used to use those frequencies no longer use them, and they have been lying dormant for quite a few years.

Nope.  Part 15 does not allow the type of operation we're talking about between 76 - 88 MHz.  And there are still some TV stations on channels 2 - 6.

1 hour ago, Orville said:

And we have a new commercial radio station on 87.7FM

So you have one of those.  It's a station exploiting a loophole that is still allowing a low power analog TV station.  So they operate a TV station on channel 6 (82 - 88 MHz) that either has no video carrier at all, or video signal that is generally just a logo.  The audio carrier for an analog TV station on channel 6 is 87.75 - which is  close enough that an FM broadcast receiver dialed up to 87.70 will receive it OK.  Other than the audio being a little quiet by comparison to a real FM station, it works.  At some point, that loophole will go away.  We have one of those "FM stations" here in Los Angeles, last time I checked (also Spanish language).

 

[dgander]

Just one observation, the two wires stripped to the mini director is power for the transmitter, not sound. The audio goes through a 3.5 jack Y connector if you got it from LOR. They then send one cable from the Y adapter to the Transmitter and one open if you want to connect another audio speaker. There should have only been two devices on the Showtime Central box from LOR, the WholeHouse transmitter and the minidirector.

[Orville]

Thanks for the info Jim. Looks like I'll be searching for a new Freq that'll work in my area.   Time to start scanning the FM  radio tuner and see where there may be a nice gap that I could use, of course I also check the Radio Locator site to be sure too.

 

[TheDucks]

@Orville https://www.fmfool.com/ enter your location and you can see your available stations and their levels (you can probably reuse a fringe level freq

[Orville]

3 hours ago, TheDucks said:

@Orville https://www.fmfool.com/ enter your location and you can see your available stations and their levels (you can probably reuse a fringe level freq

What is a fringe level frequency?  First time I've encountered this term.

Thanks!

EDIT: just tried your link and get an error page, tried the "try again" to access it, still get an error page. :(   Never had that issue with the other Radio Locator site I've used in the past.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Orville

[TheDucks]

28 minutes ago, Orville said:

What is a fringe level frequency?  First time I've encountered this term.

Thanks!

EDIT: just tried your link and get an error page, tried the "try again" to access it, still get an error page. :(   Never had that issue with the other Radio Locator site I've used in the past.

HMM! i have a dead bookmark 😐  sorry

 

I mean a site that is out on the fringes, so the signal is really low and you would not have issue overriding it.

Edited January 11, 2023 by TheDucks