Cosmic Color Ribbon Extension

[GrenzTravis]

Hey guys! I have a bunch of the old Cosmic Color ribbon lights and I am making arches with them. Because they are going to be clear across the yard, I need to extend the plug in on them to plug into the box. I bought some 18 gauge wire. I cut the plug in end off and spliced a length of wire in to lengthen the cord. I ran the test on the box and the lights flicker a bit when they shouldn't be. Is the wire not transferring the data well? Is there a special kind of wire I need to use? Please help me!!

[TheDucks]

You can't just add lots of cable to Smart nodes.. The controller needs to be nearby. Older ones were about 15', Gen 2 Pixies can do ~25'

Those numbers are for 12V. Voltage drop is critical when using 5V nodes. Power injection can help with the voltage issue.

Data bit waveform distortion due to length of is the issue. Installing a Null Pixel halfway along the feed, might help as each nor regenerates the data waveform

[dibblejr]

12v pixels can be farther than 25’ for sure however the user needs to test either while setting up or before hand to ensure it works with their scenario.

There are a lot of factors that come to play.

I have 5 - 20’ extensions for each section of my house outline. That is distance from my pixie controllers. I have no problems but I spared no cost with the extensions.

I have assisted people that used speaker wire and even cat5 cable to make extensions that were upset because they couldn’t get 15- 20’ total.

The key is test in real time well before the season.

JR

[GrenzTravis]

6 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

12v pixels can be farther than 25’ for sure however the user needs to test either while setting up or before hand to ensure it works with their scenario.

There are a lot of factors that come to play.

I have 5 - 20’ extensions for each section of my house outline. That is distance from my pixie controllers. I have no problems but I spared no cost with the extensions.

I have assisted people that used speaker wire and even cat5 cable to make extensions that were upset because they couldn’t get 15- 20’ total.

The key is test in real time well before the season.

JR

are you talking about pixel nodes? Do they act different than the CCRs? or are we talking about the same thing?

I did test with the test button in the controller box and that is when it runs through the pixels and then changes color and it randomly flickers some of the lights.

what type of wire did you get and what type of connectors did you use? 

This is the wire that I am trying to use.

[Don]

The original CCR's didn't have extensions available. Depending on how old they are, some of them might even be 5 volt units, and not the later versions at 12v.

You will probably want to consider the newer line up of ribbons/controllers. 

[GrenzTravis]

I bought this in 2018

16 Ribbon Tree - Pixie16  16RibbonTreePixie         

 Input Voltage Selection = 120v - Controller 

                                                    

[Don]

1 minute ago, GrenzTravis said:

I bought this in 2018

16 Ribbon Tree - Pixie16  16RibbonTreePixie         

 Input Voltage Selection = 120v - Controller 

                                                    

That's the new stuff.

https://store.lightorama.com/pages/pixel-extension-limits - Check that page. See which version you have. What's listed there is the maximum rated extension lengths. Anything you do to get beyond that isn't going to be covered by support (FYI.) 

[dibblejr]

2 hours ago, GrenzTravis said:

are you talking about pixel nodes? Do they act different than the CCRs? or are we talking about the same thing?

I did test with the test button in the controller box and that is when it runs through the pixels and then changes color and it randomly flickers some of the lights.

what type of wire did you get and what type of connectors did you use? 

This is the wire that I am trying to use.

Yeah, that wire is not going to work well for extensions for anything other than thermostats.

JR

Edited October 28, 2022 by dibblejr

[TheDucks]

4 hours ago, dibblejr said:

Yeah, that wire is not going to work well for extensions for anything other than thermostats.

JR

Digital signals need wire with constant impedance the entire length. Coax is the best, but is not really suitable for our use (only 2 conductors). CAT 5/6 has the impedance part down, but the wire is too small for the current needed  (POE uses 48VDC, which is how it can move 15W to run cameras or VOIP phones)

Thermostat or Sprinkler wire is used for 24VAC. The wires are just trapped in a protective jacket. (BTW Sprinkler wire is made for outdoor/direct burial, but basically the same)

That wire would probably be fine for Dumb nodes ( on a CMB24)

[GrenzTravis]

1 hour ago, TheDucks said:

Digital signals need wire with constant impedance the entire length. Coax is the best, but is not really suitable for our use (only 2 conductors). CAT 5/6 has the impedance part down, but the wire is too small for the current needed  (POE uses 48VDC, which is how it can move 15W to run cameras or VOIP phones)

Thermostat or Sprinkler wire is used for 24VAC. The wires are just trapped in a protective jacket. (BTW Sprinkler wire is made for outdoor/direct burial, but basically the same)

That wire would probably be fine for Dumb nodes ( on a CMB24)

ok thank! So...what wire should i be using? Where can I get the correct wire?

6 hours ago, dibblejr said:

Yeah, that wire is not going to work well for extensions for anything other than thermostats.

JR

Thanks JR. What wire do you suggest?

[k6ccc]

Don't use a solid conductor wire.  WAY TOO easy to break the connections to whatever it's attached to.  That is particularly bad if you are soldering directly to the pixels.

2 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Digital signals need wire with constant impedance the entire length.

While what The Ducks said about impedance for data is correct - in theory.  However, because the data rate we are using is so low, in real life it is not overly picky.  I have used a three conductor 18AWG extension cord, and two conductor 18AWG SPT-1 with a third wire zip tied to it for the data and both of those worked just fine.  I usually do use something better, but those were available at the times....

 

[Steven]

Thermostat wire is solid, which means it can't be flexed that many times. It is designed to be installed once and then not moved again.

Holiday lighting, however, flexes the wire a lot, every season. Solid wire will break after a while. You should use stranded wire.

[dibblejr]

On 10/28/2022 at 7:24 AM, GrenzTravis said:

ok thank! So...what wire should i be using? Where can I get the correct wire?

Thanks JR. What wire do you suggest?

Pre built extensions that are made for our hobby. Yes, it’s a little more than buying bulk cable however they withstand the test of time.

Depending on what connectors are in your RGB lights would depend on the source of supply.

JR