Lights Dimming Oddly

[zing]

First year doing arches and have 3 channels in one arch and one channel in the other arch that are lagging [all channels in question are connected to the same controller, not sure if that matters or not].  Lagging, probably isn't the right word as I did some testing using the Hardware utility and see that the channels that are acting up are turning off around 18% while the others are turning off around 33%.  It's really noticeable when it's a slow fade down.  I have a video of it, but for whatever reason I can't paste any links in the forum

 

  All lights are from Paul at CDI.  All lights are brand new from this year.

 

  I was using incandescent lights as extension cords (on two lights, I moved the leads so they weren't creating contact thus creating an extension cord).  Originally I thought, hmm weird snubbing.  When I got home from work I examined it and noticed that one of the channels in question was actually connected with a regular extension cord so that kind of ruled that theory out.  Many of the other channels (the ones that are turning off @ 33% are also connected with incandescent light strings).  I then switched the one with an extension cord out with an incandescent string, with the same results.

 

  To the general public, they probably don't notice it.  To me that's all I see.

Edit: had to turn the advanced settings off...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4axyUlwTq1CMnJLUm1DVklkREU/view?usp=sharing

Edited December 2, 2014 by zing

[zing]

anyone?

[Mega Arch]

Channels or lights? One other observation is the use of old light strands as extension cords. Bad idea. Many are 20awg. You could be getting some voltage drop causing some dimming effects when not planned.

Move your lights that dim to the level you consider to be correct to the questionable channels.

Then you will know if it's lights or controller.

Let us know.

Good luck.

[zing]

I don't think it's a channel issue as the lights will shut off once it hits 18% for dimming. The other channels (as seen in the video), shut off once it hits about 33%.

I'll switch channels around to see if I can get the lights to still dim at the previous values. I'll update with the findings.

[Jim Hans]

If your lights are LED then you may need to add a snubber (search these forums... lots of information on them) or attach a few incon's to them to help draw off the electricity.  One way to test this is to add a string on icon's to the sections not dimming right and see if this fixes it.

[zing]

If your lights are LED then you may need to add a snubber (search these forums... lots of information on them) or attach a few incon's to them to help draw off the electricity.  One way to test this is to add a string on icon's to the sections not dimming right and see if this fixes it.

I did that. It didn't change anything.

[Mega Arch]

Back to the sequence. Was it newly created? Or did you copy & paste it? Paste from foreground or background? Almost like the command is telling them to stop at the different times.

[wbaker4]

I have a controller that does that on a few channels for very slow fade outs.   It flickers just before it shuts off.  There are incandescent mini trees running off those channels.  Last year I added extra loads to those channels but it didn't help.  I am going to watch it tonight and note which channels they are.  I'll swap out the controller and replace the triacs on the bad channels.

[zing]

Back to the sequence. Was it newly created? Or did you copy & paste it? Paste from foreground or background? Almost like the command is telling them to stop at the different times.

Some newly created and some pasted. It happens on every song. The video I posted through Goggle drive, is one song that it's super prominent in as the fade's are long. It happens for fade ups or downs. I was hoping in making a different dimming curve, and I messed around with "LOR standard" and "DimCurve01", with the same results. If I have Say Controller 1 set with an intensity of 30%, no lights turn on. If I raise it to 33 / 34%, the lights turn on, really dull as one would expect. Now If I go to the controller in question and set it @ 15%, they're off, I raise that up to 18 / 19% and they turn on. I will see if any other channels do the same. Shall note upfront that the other channels have a mix of CDI lights and LED Target [Phillips] lights.

A lot of my testing was done during the intermission (15 mins), and due to my computer location it's impossible to see what the lights are doing and being on the computer at the same time. No gf or anything to help with the testing.

Uploaded it to youtube, see link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e48H1K9j_-E&feature=youtu.be

Edited December 5, 2014 by zing

[zing]

Alright just came in. Switched some channels around to see if it was the lights or the controller. Looks like regardless of what set of lights I plug controller 3 into, the lights turn off at a much lower intensity (18% range), while all other controllers turn the lights off @ the 33% range.

I ran the hardware diagnostics to see if it was a setting / dim curve off. But I don't see any difference between any of the controllers. One difference was the version, but the one that was an older version isn't the controller in question

Extension cords: 90% are actual extension cords the rest are incandescent extension as mentioned in my first post. This particular controller is one that's mixed, but there are also other controllers with this same "mixed scenario".

Any idea what I can do to make all 4 controllers act / react the same? Knowing that controller 3 is allowing the lights to have a much smoother fade, ideally controller 1, 2 and 4 should be doing the same. However, I'd be totally content is controller 3 acted like the others (turning off around the 33% range).

[Mike Schmidt]

Interesting post, as I just recently started a LOR ticket for this same thing. I have some channels/ controllers working fine others not so much when it comes to a smooth fade. Not sure why. Seems choppy, not smooth at all and as you state, most may not know but I do and it is not right if your trying to enter into or exit a music piece with soft fades. LOR basically didnt answer my question. I am aware that they get very busy this time of year but there help responses get even shorter. Not wanting to push the issue I decided to check into the forum for the fiirst time this season and go fiqure, someone else is experiancing the same problem. Please let me know what you have figured out, as for now I am just going to live with it, but it sure baffles me!!!

 

Mike

[zing]

Interesting post, as I just recently started a LOR ticket for this same thing. I have some channels/ controllers working fine others not so much when it comes to a smooth fade. Not sure why. Seems choppy, not smooth at all and as you state, most may not know but I do and it is not right if your trying to enter into or exit a music piece with soft fades. LOR basically didnt answer my question. I am aware that they get very busy this time of year but there help responses get even shorter. Not wanting to push the issue I decided to check into the forum for the fiirst time this season and go fiqure, someone else is experiancing the same problem. Please let me know what you have figured out, as for now I am just going to live with it, but it sure baffles me!!!

Mike

Mike, keep me in the loop if you get anywhere either. In my video you can see, mines not choppy, just stays on longer.

-Alan

[wbaker4]

Run your sequence with the visualizer running.  See if the dimming is the same on the visualizer.  That picks up a lot of things that are not obvious in the sequence editor.

 

Also, look at your dimming ramps.  Make sure they are smooth.  I had one sequence that at the top of a ramp up, it started to ramp down for one time square, and then go back to 100%.  That caused the lights on that channel to flicker.

[zing]

Run your sequence with the visualizer running.  See if the dimming is the same on the visualizer.  That picks up a lot of things that are not obvious in the sequence editor.

 

Also, look at your dimming ramps.  Make sure they are smooth.  I had one sequence that at the top of a ramp up, it started to ramp down for one time square, and then go back to 100%.  That caused the lights on that channel to flicker.

Yeah, I did that for all of my songs. The controller itself, it allowing the lights to dim longer i.e. dim to an intensity much less than the rest thus creating a "lagging" effect.

[Mega Arch]

Only 18 days 'til Christmas. I guess for this year I only see 2 options left:

1. Do nothing else and live with it.

As you said, most probably won't notice too much.

Just bugs yourself.

2. Go back into your sequences and change the intensity fades up and down to 100% to 50%.

Naked eye really shouldn't see the difference of a 33% shutoff and 50%.

Not near as much as you would see them not shutting off at the same time.

Good luck.

[Comopr2]

Have you tried resetting your controllers?  I had a problem with two of my controllers where a couple channels stopped working and I submitted a ticket to the help desk and they suggested I reset my controllers. 

I tried to cut and paste the info into this but that feature doesn't seem to work.  Let me know what your controller types are.

*1600 Series Generation 1 or 2 (metal enclosure and no LED display inside)

*1600 Series Generation 3 (metal enclosure with LED display inside)

*CTB-16PC Series Generation 1 or 2 (typically in a plastic enclosure, red status light)

*CTB-16PC Series Generation 3 (typically in a plastic enclosure, green status light

*CTB-32

 

I'll send the information depending on your controller type.

[zing]

Have you tried resetting your controllers?  I had a problem with two of my controllers where a couple channels stopped working and I submitted a ticket to the help desk and they suggested I reset my controllers. 

I tried to cut and paste the info into this but that feature doesn't seem to work.  Let me know what your controller types are.

*1600 Series Generation 1 or 2 (metal enclosure and no LED display inside)

*1600 Series Generation 3 (metal enclosure with LED display inside)

*CTB-16PC Series Generation 1 or 2 (typically in a plastic enclosure, red status light)

*CTB-16PC Series Generation 3 (typically in a plastic enclosure, green status light

*CTB-32

 

I'll send the information depending on your controller type.

to get the copy and past function to work, you have to turn off the advanced settings when replying in the forums [there's a light switch icon]. I just figured this out myself, recently lol.

It's a CTB-16PC Gen 3. I failed to put that in my first post. I also opened a ticket and they recommended the same. Due to the heavy rain and high wind that we've been getting these past couple of days, I haven't been able to re-set it. Dumb question, but I can keep the Ethernet cable still plugged into the box when I reset it right? I really don't want to move the controller, unplug all of the wires and move it so it's the first controller in the series.

[Comopr2]

I'm assuming they sent you the reset instructions as well. You shouldn't have to unplug everything. Just remove power to the controller, move the jumper, reapply power for a few seconds, and so on. It was pretty quick and it fixed my issue. Hopefully it fixes yours as well.

You will have to reassign the controller number, but since you said it was the first in your series, you should be ok.

BTW, thanks for the cut & paste tip.

[zing]

I'm assuming they sent you the reset instructions as well. You shouldn't have to unplug everything. Just remove power to the controller, move the jumper, reapply power for a few seconds, and so on. It was pretty quick and it fixed my issue. Hopefully it fixes yours as well.

You will have to reassign the controller number, but since you said it was the first in your series, you should be ok.

BTW, thanks for the cut & paste tip.

Crud, it's the 3rd controller.... I was hoping I Didn't have to play the plug and play game.

[zing]

made it out there. Reset the controller in question, no change. Reset the others and bingo, everything dims @ the 18% now. Even better yet didn't, have to reassign controller id's! Thanks again for everyones help