Weather causing GFIs to trip out

[Jim Hans]

I don't know if this is true or not but it appears to me that GFCI trips can be additive, that is, a little loss here and a little loss there adds up to enough to trip the GFCI. I had taken all the precautions with my connections and open ends and would still get GFCI trips in the rain. Being 100% LED I had all my controllers running on one circuit.

Three years ago I put every controller on its own GFCI circuit and haven't had a trip since. The moral of my sorry little story is that you may not find a standout offender in your search for what trips your GFCI, it could just be a lot of little loss adding up to enough to trip it. At least, that was the case for me. So my suggestion going forward would be to make sure each controller is on a separate, GFCI protected circuit.

[Liberty-Laser]

Dont run show when it's raining and dont have people problems in the display either.

That's why I would NEVER run my show without GFCIs. If a person’s body starts to receive a shock, the GFCI senses this and cuts off the power before he/she can get injured. Think static shock.

Nuisance tripping: It takes only 5 mA (0.005 A) of current leakage from the hot wire to the ground to cause a GFCI to trip. Long runs with a lot of connections (typical Christmas Light display), or motors can easily cause this small amount of leakage.

[rmturner54]

To each their own. All are valid points. Maybe I need to clear up a statement. Not that I should have to defend myself here. But just to clear up something I said earlier so we can move on. All of my outdoor outlets around my house that I use, are GFCI's (had a senior moment), so the protection is there. I guess having been in this house so long you forget things like built in GFCI's. However,

I dont install individual GFCI's off of each AC channel out.

Sorry if I miss lead anyone. I never said they were not useful. Never will I operate a portable power tool outside w/o one.

[Liberty-Laser]

One exception to my "show must go on" pledge..... A thunderstorm is moving in this evening and I'll unplug all of my controllers and cat5 cables until it passes. I think we all heard the horror story of a fellow decorator a couple weeks ago. http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/25178-well-i-just-lost-everything/page__hl__lightning

Edited December 17, 2012 by Liberty-Laser

[De Trommelslager]

I don't know if this is true or not but it appears to me that GFCI trips can be additive, that is, a little loss here and a little loss there adds up to enough to trip the GFCI. I had taken all the precautions with my connections and open ends and would still get GFCI trips in the rain. Being 100% LED I had all my controllers running on one circuit.

Yes, current leaked does add up. And in the case of multple small current leaks, it can be tough to locate and correct all. Even if your whole display is able to be powered by a single circuit, it is a good idea to break up the controllers on individual GFCI devices to avoid the current build ups as well as help in troubleshooting. If the whole display goes dark, where do you start? A single controller out and you already have it down to a number of channels.

As for running the show in the rain... Not the smartest idea for numerous reasons. Foremost is safety; even though the circuits are (should be!) protected by a GFCI device it isn't worth the gamble for getting someone hurt. I'm not betting my life, nor anyone elses on a <$20 mass produced device by who knows! Besides, how many are really going to watch a light show in the rain? Yes, I realize that common sense is not so common anymore and there are people that would watch in the rain, tornado, hurricane, etc. There's always another day, and I personally don't want my equipment throwing power out to wet light strings.

Edited December 18, 2012 by De Trommelslager

[Dad02]

It's easier not to run in the rain, less headaches.

[LightShowGeek]

Hi all,

I am new to light-o-rama; this is my first year and also my first year of headaches with GFI outlets. This topic comes very close to what I am experiencing. I ran for the past 4 years all my lights without issues (steady on) and this is the first year I started to have issues (and added the controllers) in sense of when it is wet outside the GFI trips. Previous years were never an issue (rain or snow). I only have this issue on wet days. I am not sure if I should post on this topic or start a new one; I figure I would start here and see where it goes.

Being my first year my setup is not as big as some of the setups I been reading about (very impressive). I have 2 controllers (32 channels but currently only using 24 channels) with close to 6,000 lights and pulling about 5.5 amps. The entire setup is connected to a timer that is connected to a CFI outlet (15 amps).

All outlets (extension cords and light strings) point down to ensure water drips out. The controllers are under the porch so they are not getting wet. I narrow it down to the mini trees I build this past summer (6 of them and each with 300 lights – 3 cords of 100 lights). As soon as I plug them all in, the CFI trips (sometimes I manage to get 30 seconds or a min before it goes out). I continue my troubleshooting and finally got on demand results where as soon as the 6^th mini tree was plugged in the CFI would trip (no matter on what order it was plugged in). Then I figure I would switch the extension cords (just in case) and plug all 6 mini trees to a newer CFI outlet (just in case as well). All options caused the CFI to trip. I made sure I didn’t have broken bulbs and everything is off the ground. Then I took the 1 tree that seems to cause the CFI to trip and plug in each individual light cord and everything works fine (any combination or 2 cords is also ok). It is only when I have all 3 light cords plugged in the CFI trips.

Any ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated to help me get this resolved.

[Liberty-Laser]

Even a pinhole in your wiring is going to leak voltage across that wire frame. I'd suggest since you've narrowed it down to that 1 tree, re-string it. Why are you using a timer? These controllers consume very little electricity when idle.

[LightShowGeek]

I was thinking to head over to the store after work (today or tomorrow as time permits) to get new lights (all the lights on these trees are brand new (bought them thanksgiving weekend) for the 1 tree and re-wire it and see how it does on the next wet day (I may just get the water hose out and create my own rain). As for the timer; I have the mini-director to run my show (no internal clock). I use the timer to turn everything on and off (lighted sign for the radio station, controllers, fm transmitter) for me that way I don’t have to leave a laptop hookup to the controllers and it will come on off whether I am there or not.

[dj_speedy]

We have rain here for the last 6 days now but the show runs every night without any problems. 3 controllers only covered with a plastic bag. My solution was to cover all the connections with... hot glue. I know this maybe sounds weird but it works great. No tripping of GFI's. Show runs great and rain keeps falling every day. Hope this maybe helps you out.

[De Trommelslager]

We have rain here for the last 6 days now but the show runs every night without any problems. 3 controllers only covered with a plastic bag. My solution was to cover all the connections with... hot glue. I know this maybe sounds weird but it works great. No tripping of GFI's. Show runs great and rain keeps falling every day. Hope this maybe helps you out.

Glad you got it sorted. Hot glue makes me wonder how your controllers are mounted, though.

[LightShowGeek]

We have rain here for the last 6 days now but the show runs every night without any problems. 3 controllers only covered with a plastic bag. My solution was to cover all the connections with... hot glue. I know this maybe sounds weird but it works great. No tripping of GFI's. Show runs great and rain keeps falling every day. Hope this maybe helps you out.

Interesting fix (I might have to give that a try after I replace the lights on that one mini-tree); are you using the hot glue where the wire enters the plug or on the open end of the plug?

[Liberty-Laser]

I could not endorse sealing of any of the strings/cords. However, If you do re-string that tree, you may want to first spray the metal with plastic grip. It's the same stuff you can dip your shop hand tools in, but in a spray can. I use a different type of mini tree, but I've started doing this on any metal that touches the ground. Not only does it protect against shock, it helps reduce rusting and corrosion.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Liberty-Laser

[LightShowGeek]

Fully understandable (cannot endorse)…they are just ideas of what people have done. That is why I asked how they were sealed as it is not something you see every day. As for the plastic paint; I like that idea; I didn’t know they sold it in a can. I just painted my tomato cages with green paint. Also I been reading what has been happening over here… http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/24618-tracking-down-a-short/ and that could be part of my problem as mine are touching the ground big time (the metal not the cords).

[dj_speedy]

@ trommelslager : thnx, but i don't understand what that's got to do with the way my controllers our mounted? One controller is inside, the other 2 are outside, one mounted to the pole of the mega tree and the other also on a metal pole, 1ft of the ground ;-)

@xprojects : both, i use the hot glue on every connection i have. I use hot glue because it easely peales off when i have to disconnect something. Just checked all the connections yesterday, they are all as dry as can be inside ;-)

[De Trommelslager]

@ trommelslager : thnx, but i don't understand what that's got to do with the way my controllers our mounted? One controller is inside, the other 2 are outside, one mounted to the pole of the mega tree and the other also on a metal pole, 1ft of the ground ;-)

The reason I wondered how your controllers were mounted was sealing the connections with hot glue seemed to solve your issue. If an outlet/sord end/ socket/etc. is either in the ground or in the "splash zone" then it could easily get wet and cause a fault. My curiosity, just wondered if there was something to the mounting method (laying on the ground, floating in a pond, etc.) that would contribute to faults.

With the controller 1ft off of the ground, you are probably okay (unless the 1ft mark is the top of the controller). Since your controllers are mounted to metal poles, if the enclosures are metal there is a potential pathway to ground at the controllers themselves. Just something to be aware of in case something wierd is going on (for you or others reading this).

[roverdish]

I used clear silicone in a caulking tube on all connections and placed two simple beads on all open female ends. I also sealed where the wires enter the plug ends. The beads peel right off if needed and the plugged and sealed connectors can be seperated fairly easily. The silicone can be applied as or after the display is assembled. It worked great for me and unlike hot glue did not require electricity to apply.

I used clear GE silicone "window and door sealant" in a caulking tube. Everything was dry when I took the lights down and not one water intrusion issue the entire season.

[robongar]

I had a bit of water problem this year, I sprayed all my outside plugs etc with

Car engine ignition protector, it stops the water from pooling. It seemed to have done the job well.