Help a newbie: RGB LED strips

[lowepg]

Ive read through a few excellent posts and also viewed a nice powerpoint. It answered a LOT of questions, but here's a few that remain:

1. Ive seen some strips with 30 leds/m and some with 60 leds/m. Im assuming more=brighter/fuller colors. Are there any other tradeoffs?

2. Ive also seen 10M strings (30 leds/M) and wondering if, since they are a single strip, they can be powered from one end.

3. Is there a reliable source for these lights in the US?

4. How many strips can be run from a single controller? Im assuming Id want something more substantial that the controller prepackaged with some of these 5M sets?

5. (Caution, super-newbie question); Assuming I'm limited to 5M strips: I want to outline a 20m eave. So I need to snake control AND power lines to each strip? How do I best accomplish that? Any preferred cabling?

6. Im reading they only flex along their axis, not sideways: If I want to outline a window, do I need to cut and resolder these strips at the 90-degree angles?

7. Lastly, flat strip lights? I know some come with adhesive backing- but Im assuming that only really good for indoors. HOW do I non-permanantly attach these strip light to my house?

This is my first foray into "real outdoor lights." I KNOW I dont have time to learn, buy and install a full LOR setup by XMAS, so I was going to start small this year by doing some of the LED accent lighting and then adding the "show" for next year. I figured I used use all these to compliment the LOR setup next year anyways....

Thanks in advance for your help!! Virgin post #1, be gentle....

[Santas Helper]

Welcome aboard!!!

Some great folks will be chiming in soon on your answers. I too will be getting into the RGB strips soon for next year.

Again, welcome.

Tom

[JBullard]

lowepg wrote:

Ive read through a few excellent posts and also viewed a nice powerpoint. It answered a LOT of questions, but here's a few that remain:

1. Ive seen some strips with 30 leds/m and some with 60 leds/m. Im assuming more=brighter/fuller colors. Are there any other tradeoffs?

Price is one that comes to mind, but which strips were they?

2. Ive also seen 10M strings (30 leds/M) and wondering if, since they are a single strip, they can be powered from one end.

Depends, Are they 5 volt, 12 volt, 24 volt? Voltage drop can be a real concern

3. Is there a reliable source for these lights in the US?

Possibly but which strips/strings are you referring to?

4. How many strips can be run from a single controller? Im assuming Id want something more substantial that the controller prepackaged with some of these 5M sets?

First use caution buying the ones that have their own controller, thay may not be able to be used in the future with a different contoller. As to how many strips, what voltage, which strips, which controller, LOR DC card, DMX controllers, Intelligent pixel contollers ? The question is too vague

5. (Caution, super-newbie question); Assuming I'm limited to 5M strips: I want to outline a 20m eave. So I need to snake control AND power lines to each strip? How do I best accomplish that? Any preferred cabling?

Which strips? Some only require power, other require power and either one or two data lines. The cabeling may depend on which strips

6. Im reading they only flex along their axis, not sideways: If I want to outline a window, do I need to cut and resolder these strips at the 90-degree angles?

Some flat strips have 90 degree conectors avaible. Many people will use strings of pixel bulbs for this application.

7. Lastly, flat strip lights? I know some come with adhesive backing- but Im assuming that only really good for indoors. HOW do I non-permanantly attach these strip light to my house?

Depends on the strip and where on your house you want to use them. Some have mounting brackets for this application,

This is my first foray into "real outdoor lights." I KNOW I dont have time to learn, buy and install a full LOR setup by XMAS, so I was going to start small this year by doing some of the LED accent lighting and then adding the "show" for next year. I figured I used use all these to compliment the LOR setup next year anyways....

Thanks in advance for your help!! Virgin post #1, be gentle....

All of your questions were good, but...... you were trying to think of all RGB strips and strings as being equal, wrong, these are not ordinary lights. You did not reference a partictular strip or string. The answers are different depending on which one.

They come in different voltages, different control protocols, etc and are not normally interchangeable.

"Dumb" RGB usually only needs the voltage supplied to each color, and can be controlled with a LOR DC card or simple DMX controller. Typically use a 5050 LED and all LEDs have to do the same thing at the same time.

"Intelligent" strings speak certain protocols or languages and need a special controller that will communicate with them. So one pixel could be red, the next one green etc and allow for some great effects inculding chasing.

Some common protocols include LPD6803, WS2801, TM1803, TM1804, TM1809, TLS3001 and 1 wire native DMX pixels.

My suggestion is to do some research first on the controllers, decide which one (s) you want to use, then only buy strings/pixels that are compatible, otherwise you may end up with stuff that is not compatible.

Just my opinions and what I have found works best in my display.

[lowepg]

Sorry for the vagueness....

Here is an example of the 10M strips I was referring to:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-500CM-5050-SMD-LED-RGB-Waterproof-300-LED-Strip-12V-24Key-IR-Remote-/170729000314?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c03dcd7a

Here is a 5M:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-500CM-5050-SMD-LED-RGB-Waterproof-300-LED-Strip-/170728832473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c03b3dd9

I wasnt purposely looking to buy from ebay, but I didnt find many domestic options...

I did surf Ray Wu's site- but I found almost too many options and for just getting started, I was trying to find something more local.

[JBullard]

lowepg wrote:

Sorry for the vagueness....

Here is an example of the 10M strips I was referring to:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10M-500CM-5050-SMD-LED-RGB-Waterproof-300-LED-Strip-12V-24Key-IR-Remote-/170729000314?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c03dcd7a

Here is a 5M:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-500CM-5050-SMD-LED-RGB-Waterproof-300-LED-Strip-/170728832473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c03b3dd9

I wasnt purposely looking to buy from ebay, but I didnt find many domestic options...

I did surf Ray Wu's site- but I found almost too many options and for just getting started, I was trying to find something more local.

The ones you referenced are "dumb" RGB strips. They could be controlled with a LOR DC voltage card or a simple DMX controller.

[lowepg]

JBullard wrote:

The ones you referenced are "dumb" RGB strips. They could be controlled with a LOR DC voltage card or a simple DMX controller.

Thank you. Can you respond to some of the other questions? Most of them you deferred answers because I didn't reference a specific light.

Or perhaps more importantly, is there a better set of lights youd recommend?

I want dumb lights
I want to be able to afford a lot of them (eventually)
I want to use them to "outline" parts of the house (vertical lines, eaves, windows)
Id prefer to buy something I can get deliver of in the next 2-3 weeks (why I was leaning domestic)

I want something I can buy this season and add to it next season with a fullblown LOR configuration. So, I dont want to buy crap either :-)

[JBullard]

lowepg wrote:

JBullard wrote:

The ones you referenced are "dumb" RGB strips.  They could be controlled with a LOR DC voltage card or a  simple DMX controller.

Thank you. Can you respond to some of the other questions? Most of them you deferred answers because I didn't reference a specific light.

Or perhaps more importantly, is there a better set of lights youd recommend?

I want dumb lights
I want to be able to afford a lot of them (eventually)
I want to use them to "outline" parts of the house (vertical lines, eaves, windows)
Id prefer to buy something I can get deliver of in the next 2-3 weeks (why I was leaning domestic)

I want something I can buy this season and add to it next season with a fullblown LOR configuration. So, I dont want to buy crap either :-)

#1 Price and increased current draw per strip

#2 Maybe, however the LEDs on the far end could be very dim. I would plan on doing power injection midway. 30 something feet would really be pushing it. Most people that buy a 10 meter spool cut it into smaller sections

#3 They all are made in China, there might be some US sellers(at a much higher price), I have never looked. I usually buy from Ray Wu in the spring.

#4 What is the current draw of the strip, and what is the capacity of the power supply that you furnish. With these, the controllers (LOR for example) do not include power supplies. All you get is a circuit card.

#5 Dumb strips do not use control lines, power only.

#6 I would for the strip you referenced

#7 You would need to fabricate the mounting method yourself depending on where on your house and what material you are mounting to )masonry, wood, vinyl, etc

Also, treat these things very gently. Very much flexing in any direction can result in broken traces.

I have a question for you. For this year, How had you planned to power these things? Do you plan to use them in all white mode or be able to change the colors from time to time? Is your 12 volt power source weather resistant?

[JBullard]

Personally, I don't like the ribbon strips. Too fragile and too hard to mount. Just my opinion. I have some that I did cut into 18 inch lenghts, for a special project.

For a dumb RGB light, I prefer these, much more durable, easier to mount, etc. I bought several hundred this year.
Don't know that you could possibly get any in time starting this late in the year.

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-291745854/Waterproof-RGB-LED-LED-Module-3-pcs-5050-SMD-RGB-LED.html

[lowepg]

JBullard wrote:

Personally, I don't like the ribbon strips. Too fragile and too hard to mount. Just my opinion. I have some that I did cut into 18 inch lenghts, for a special project.

For a dumb RGB light, I prefer these, much more durable, easier to mount, etc. I bought several hundred this year.
Don't know that you could possibly get any in time starting this late in the year.

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-291745854/Waterproof-RGB-LED-LED-Module-3-pcs-5050-SMD-RGB-LED.html

Thanks. Dumb question #434, but I guess when I look at those rgb modules, its not immediately obvious how to mount them.... The strips probably make more sense to me because I can visualize a 5M "string/strip" of lights like I might the old-fashioned kind... so like, "ok- I have 20 meter eave, buy (4) 5M strips."

I guess I need to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to do all this. I was ASSuming I cold jump in late this year just to do some "outlining" on the house and get more in depth next year. Its sounding like even my modest plan might not be do-able this XMAS.

[lowepg]

JBullard wrote:

#5 Dumb strips do not use control lines, power only.


I have a question for you. For this year, How had you planned to power these things? Do you plan to use them in all white mode or be able to change the colors from time to time? Is your 12 volt power source weather resistant?

I thought even with the dumb lights, you COULD control the color, just needed to be for the entire strip (as opposed to discrete LEDS- forwhich I could only do with a 'smart" system, like CCR's).

So, yes, i was hoping to be able to change the colors... initially with some type of separate controller; next year with a LOR DC card.... unless Im already wrong on those capabilities

[JBullard]

The modules have mounting holes at each end. I'm putting a couple hundred on a float right now for a Sat night parade.

They come prewired daisy chain fashion and you can cut to length. For eaves, just mount them on some furring strip in an easy to handle length and use cup hooks or something for temporary mounting.

[JBullard]

lowepg wrote:

JBullard wrote:

#5 Dumb strips do not use control lines, power only.


I have a question for you. For this year, How had you planned to power these things? Do you plan to use them in all white mode or be able to change the colors from time to time? Is your 12 volt power source weather resistant?

I thought even with the dumb lights, you COULD control the color, just needed to be for the entire strip (as opposed to discrete LEDS- forwhich I could only do with a 'smart" system, like CCR's).

So, yes, i was hoping to be able to change the colors... initially with some type of separate controller; next year with a LOR DC card.... unless Im already wrong on those capabilities

You can control the color on dumb strips, but with power wires only. No data control lines like the "smart" strips use.

Since you will have almost 66 feet of ribbon you will probably need to inject power every 15/16 feet or so. So your controller will need the capability to supply power to all four sections at once, if you want the entire length to be all the same color at the same time.

Your idea is do-able this year, just going to be a lot of work and on-the-fly engineering and a good understanding of how to mount and control these things in a common cathode arrangement to achieve the results you are hoping for.

Edit: This would be a piece of cake for a LOR DC card.

[Paul Roberson]

Here are a couple links to some pictures of mounting ideas for the RGB strips.

RGB strip mounting.

Some of the pictures are the same.

CCR/RGB strips.

BTW. I agree with JBullard "Your idea is do-able this year, just going to be a lot of work and on-the-fly engineering and a good understanding of how to mount and control these things in a common cathode arrangement to achieve the results you are hoping for.

Edit: This would be a piece of cake for a LOR DC card."

[JBullard]

Thanks for the input Paul.

I don't know why I didn't think of using the J-Channel. I used it last week when I hung my icicles. Duh !

[lowepg]

JBullard wrote:

Your idea is do-able this year, just going to be a lot of work and on-the-fly engineering and a good understanding of how to mount and control these things in a common cathode arrangement to achieve the results you are hoping for.

Edit: This would be a piece of cake for a LOR DC card.

Yeah, Im starting to think its just too late to do anything meaningful this year.

Im bummed out because I really discovered all this stuff after seeing some Halloween displays, and then a bunch of online research led me here.

Ive now realized I probably need to start this process in the Spring/Summer to prepare for halloween and then xmas shortly after.

:-(

[JBullard]

Yep, we do it year round

[JBullard]

Yep, we do it year round

[lowepg]

JBullard wrote:

Yep, we do it year round"
"Yep we do it year round

Sure...rub it in!

[Dave H1]

JBullard wrote:

Personally, I don't like the ribbon strips. Too fragile and too hard to mount. Just my opinion. I have some that I did cut into 18 inch lenghts, for a special project.

For a dumb RGB light, I prefer these, much more durable, easier to mount, etc. I bought several hundred this year.
Don't know that you could possibly get any in time starting this late in the year.

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-291745854/Waterproof-RGB-LED-LED-Module-3-pcs-5050-SMD-RGB-LED.html

John,

are you still limited to a 20 unit strip of the modules before you need to re-inject power.

[gizmomkr]

You may want to cehck out http://www.usledsupply.com/shop/led-rope-lights.html

They sell strips and DMX drivers for them. and a lot of other cool led stuff.