Another Newbie Question Before the Summer Sale

[jeremyworkman46]

I am getting ready to make some major upgrades to my display and I want some advice. I have 30,000+ lights and want them all set to music. I would also like to have about 8 channels solely to turn flood lights off and on when the show is going on (I want all lights on for about five minutes between shows for people to see).

1) Do you suggest the PC model or the Showtime model?

2) Will either model turn individual lights off in a row, as many people do with arches?

3) Is it worth the extra to upgrade to the mp3 player?

4) As someone completely new to this, am I completely crazy to think I can come up with a 15 minute show programming it myself between now and Thanksgiving?

By the way, after reading all the other posts, I have plenty of extension cords and lights. I am set there. I stocked up on clearance last year for this very reason!

Thanks!!!

[Don]

1) For home use, the PC model is a perfect choice. It will do (almost) everything the Showtime (Pro) will do. See this page on the LOR Site for a comparison chart.

2) Yes. Either model will do this. (The effect you describe comes down to programming the lights in software. There is no hardware limitation.

3) Really depends on your situation. Not really a right/wrong answer here. If you are going to run the show via computer, then having the MP3 director might be a good backup plan. Of course, you could run the shows from a Mini-Director in a pinch.

4) Are you crazy? No. But you are going to have to really get to work on it. I remember my first year it took me forever to program lights. I happen to think that it gets easier the longer you've been at it, but others might disagree with that.

[Surfing4Dough]

Get PC controllers. If planning to run to music, then both models control lights exactly the same way. I have a mini-director mp3 player--for about $100 during the sales, it is worth it to not tie up a computer during shows and avoid having to run cat5 from the computer to the display. I position my mini-director in the garage. If you start now, you should be ok to come up with a show--download the software to at least use as a trial and start programming soon.

And I will be shocked if you don't still have to buy more cords once display setup starts.

Welcome to the fun!

[jeremyworkman46]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the advice. I'm sure I'll have a million other questions as I get going on this!

[jeremyworkman46]

Another question. If I buy the canned songs on the website, can I modify them to have certain channels completely off during the show?

[Cray Augsburg]

Jeremy:

You should be able to modify purchased sequences in any way to best fit your channel count and setup. So you can reassign channels, turn channels off or on, etc.

Just be aware of copyright infringement -- don't give them away or sell them as your own work.

Have fun!

[caniac]

jeremyworkman46 wrote:

I am getting ready to make some major upgrades to my display and I want some advice. I have 30,000+ lights and want them all set to music. I would also like to have about 8 channels solely to turn flood lights off and on when the show is going on (I want all lights on for about five minutes between shows for people to see).

1) Do you suggest the PC model or the Showtime model?

2) Will either model turn individual lights off in a row, as many people do with arches?

3) Is it worth the extra to upgrade to the mp3 player?

4) As someone completely new to this, am I completely crazy to think I can come up with a 15 minute show programming it myself between now and Thanksgiving?

By the way, after reading all the other posts, I have plenty of extension cords and lights. I am set there. I stocked up on clearance last year for this very reason!

Thanks!!!

I made this journey last year, bought two controllers as well as sequences and pretty much set things up the way the vendor suggested. Though the show was great as most of us would say "that is when the addiction took place". Once you realize the ease of setting this up using "canned" stuff your mind starts doing "what if". Since January I made a list of additional props I wanted to add and then set about building those props. January thru March is a great time to buy lights at a discounted price (vendors are dumping inventory). Since January I have built mini trees (took 4 tries to get the design I liked). My "north poles" (this one still has the folks at Lowe's hardware wonder what the hell I am doing with all those toilet flanges and 2ft sections of 4" PVC). Singing pumpkin faces and fire sticks. The possibilities are endless, if you have an idea there is always someone here that will help make it a reality.

[jeremyworkman46]

Thanks for all your help so far. I'm trying to get ready to make my purchase when the sale starts. I am thinking of getting 6 card assembled PC units. I don't want to use a laptop every night to run my show, so would it be better to buy one Showtime with Mp3 upgrade, buy a mini-director with MP3 card, or some other option I'm not even considering? If I save enough, I can buy some CCRs.

[wallleyes]

You can run all pc controllers.Thats what i do and i use the mp3 director with them.

[Surfing4Dough]

jeremyworkman46 wrote:

Thanks for all your help so far. I'm trying to get ready to make my purchase when the sale starts. I am thinking of getting 6 card assembled PC units. I don't want to use a laptop every night to run my show, so would it be better to buy one Showtime with Mp3 upgrade, buy a mini-director with MP3 card, or some other option I'm not even considering? If I save enough, I can buy some CCRs.

I use all PC controllers and use a mini-director. The main difference (and possibly only difference) is that the mini-director doesn't have an internal clock like the Mp3 Director in the Showtime controller. That is an expensive clock! I just use a $20 digital timer power strip instead. I prefer to have my Mini-director in the garage rather than out in the yard (so I can change the card easily if needed), plus I put it right next to my FM Transmitter in the garage. If using a FM transmitter, you probably should have a timer either way since you ideally shouldn't continue transmitting even when your show isn't running (less potential for FCC issues if it only runs 4-5 hrs each night), plus not ideal to transmit "dead air". Don't forget that you will have to run a connection from your mp3 director to the FM transmitter, so I found it was just easiest to mount these next to each other in the garage and use the timer for both items. The sound quality is superb from the mini-director.
I use this timer from Home Depot for $20.


So, at today's regular prices:
Showtime controller with MP3 Director = $579
vs.
Mp3 Mini-director $130, + PC card assembled controller $206, + GE 7-Day 8-Outlet Power Strip Timer (from Home depot) $20 = $356


The leftover $223 goes a long way towards a CCR.

I am not sure of the sale price for the Showtime controller with director, but I know that the Mini-director is usually $99 (once was $89 I think), and the PC Card assembled controller is roughly $30 off, so that extra combined $60 sale savings on top of the $223 gets you your CCR (which also will probably be on sale too).

[Guest guest]

jeremyworkman46 wrote:

Thanks for all your help so far. I'm trying to get ready to make my purchase when the sale starts. I am thinking of getting 6 card assembled PC units. I don't want to use a laptop every night to run my show, so would it be better to buy one Showtime with Mp3 upgrade, buy a mini-director with MP3 card, or some other option I'm not even considering? If I save enough, I can buy some CCRs.

I prefer the LOR DC-MP3 Showtime Director to run my shows. Below is how I have my MBB Eclipse-4000 and LOR DC-MP3 Showtime Director set up in a box.




Attached files

[Guest guest]

And here is the inside of the above box that contains my LOR DC-MP3 Showtime Director unit and MBB Eclipse-4000 FM Transmitter.


Currently the computer is connected to the FM Transmitter while testing my sequences (the green plug), the black plug (far right side and looks to be under unit) that's disconnected is the one from the LOR DC-MP3 Director unit that normally plugs into the FM transmitter.

Attached files

[jeremyworkman46]

So if I get 6 of the card assembled units, a mini director, the starter package with highest software, two CCRs, should I be set? I know I will still need the timer for the director, the FM transmitter, and CAT5 cables to link all of the units together. I'm getting really excited!

[Surfing4Dough]

jeremyworkman46 wrote:

So if I get 6 of the card assembled units, a mini director, the starter package with highest software, two CCRs, should I be set? I know I will still need the timer for the director, the FM transmitter, and CAT5 cables to link all of the units together. I'm getting really excited!

I think you got it figured out.


FYI:
Best FM Transmitters in my opinion: http://edmdesign.com/orders.html
I have the EDM-LCD-RDS-EP, but you can save some bucks by getting the non-RDS one if that isn't a feature/toy you don't need.

Best place for CAT5 cable: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10208

[caniac]

Surfing4Dough wrote:

jeremyworkman46 wrote:

So if I get 6 of the card assembled units, a mini director, the starter package with highest software, two CCRs, should I be set? I know I will still need the timer for the director, the FM transmitter, and CAT5 cables to link all of the units together. I'm getting really excited!

I think you got it figured out.


FYI:
Best FM Transmitters in my opinion: http://edmdesign.com/orders.html
I have the EDM-LCD-RDS-EP, but you can save some bucks by getting the non-RDS one if that isn't a feature/toy you don't need.

Best place for CAT5 cable: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10208

my ONLY issue with these FM Transmitters is that I don't want anything I have to put together. So far my options seem to be 1) get a Whole House which doesn't work, 2) a kit that I am too paranoid to put together, 3) stay with my outside speakers.

[Guest guest]

caniac wrote:

Surfing4Dough wrote:

jeremyworkman46 wrote:

So if I get 6 of the card assembled units, a mini director, the starter package with highest software, two CCRs, should I be set? I know I will still need the timer for the director, the FM transmitter, and CAT5 cables to link all of the units together. I'm getting really excited!

I think you got it figured out.


FYI:
Best FM Transmitters in my opinion: http://edmdesign.com/orders.html
I have the EDM-LCD-RDS-EP, but you can save some bucks by getting the non-RDS one if that isn't a feature/toy you don't need.

Best place for CAT5 cable: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10208

my ONLY issue with these FM Transmitters is that I don't want anything I have to put together. So far my options seem to be 1) get a Whole House which doesn't work, 2) a kit that I am too paranoid to put together, 3) stay with my outside speakers.

Or go to Mobile Black Box and see what they have available. They are supposed to be releasing a newer version that replaces the Eclipse-4000 model I have. And they also stated they may have some "REFURBISHED" Eclipse-4000 units for sale. You'd need to e-mail them from their site and ask about those.

None of the MBB's are kits and it's one of the main reasons I did go with them. I did not want to build an FM transmitter, I wanted one already assembled, just connect the antenna, plug it all in and go.

But I still use external speakers connected to an FM Radio along with my FM Transmitter.

[Steven]

Orville wrote:

I wanted one already assembled, just connect the antenna, plug it all in and go.

The reason it's hard to find those is that it's illegal (against FCC regulations) to sell an FM transmitter unless it's certified (like the Whole House units). This certification includes the built-in antenna, so it's no longer certified if you use your own.

The "good" transmitters, like the EDM or Ramsey are not certified because they don't have a built-in antenna, and probably exceed the FCC permitted levels when used with a typical antenna. For that reason, they are not sold as transmitters, but are instead sold as kits. The manufacturer thus transfers the liability to you, as the builder, because you are building the transmitter.

You will also see non-certified transmitters sold, such as several from China. These sales are illegal, but the FCC doesn't have enough manpower to shut them down.

These rules are all from Part 15 of the FCC Regulations.

[caniac]

Steven wrote:

Orville wrote:

I wanted one already assembled, just connect the antenna, plug it all in and go.

The reason it's hard to find those is that it's illegal (against FCC regulations) to sell an FM transmitter unless it's certified (like the Whole House units). This certification includes the built-in antenna, so it's no longer certified if you use your own.

The "good" transmitters, like the EDM or Ramsey are not certified because they don't have a built-in antenna, and probably exceed the FCC permitted levels when used with a typical antenna. For that reason, they are not sold as transmitters, but are instead sold as kits. The manufacturer thus transfers the liability to you, as the builder, because you are building the transmitter.

You will also see non-certified transmitters sold, such as several from China. These sales are illegal, but the FCC doesn't have enough manpower to shut them down.

These rules are all from Part 15 of the FCC Regulations.

I understand all that which is why I may opt to forgo using any fm transmitter.

[Guest guest]

Steven wrote:

Orville wrote:

I wanted one already assembled, just connect the antenna, plug it all in and go.

The reason it's hard to find those is that it's illegal (against FCC regulations) to sell an FM transmitter unless it's certified (like the Whole House units). This certification includes the built-in antenna, so it's no longer certified if you use your own.

The "good" transmitters, like the EDM or Ramsey are not certified because they don't have a built-in antenna, and probably exceed the FCC permitted levels when used with a typical antenna. For that reason, they are not sold as transmitters, but are instead sold as kits. The manufacturer thus transfers the liability to you, as the builder, because you are building the transmitter.

You will also see non-certified transmitters sold, such as several from China. These sales are illegal, but the FCC doesn't have enough manpower to shut them down.

These rules are all from Part 15 of the FCC Regulations.

What I find interesting is how MBB sells their fully assembled transmitters, that are assembled and sold in the USA, with an matching antenna AND NOT BE CERTIFIED! I thought mine was until I started looking for the "certification sticker" that should have been on the bottom of the unit, but wasn't!:shock:

I wasn't even aware of that until seeing a lot of discussions on several other forums, including this one as to where to look for the "FCC Certification".

But it sure seems that over 99% of these FM transmitters ARE UNCERTIFIED!

I even have one that plugs into my cars power outlet and even it isn't certified (purchased at a Wal-Mart many years ago) that I could find!

Sure must be difficult to get one FCC certified, is there any that are actually certified that are pre-built? And if so, who makes them, and where can you buy a "legally certified FM Transmitter?"


Guess it's time to try and do an internet search of LEGAL FM Transmitters, if there are such beasts out there anywhere....

[Steven]

Orville wrote:

What I find interesting is how MBB sells their fully assembled transmitters, that are assembled and sold in the USA, with an matching antenna AND NOT BE CERTIFIED!

That is interesting, because § 15.201 ( plainly says:

Except as otherwise exempted in paragraph © of this section and in §15.23 of this part, all intentional radiators operating under the provisions of this part shall be certificated by the Commission pursuant to the procedures in subpart J of part 2 of this chapter prior to marketing.

Paragraph © is about security alarms, and §15.23 is about "Home-built devices" (which, incidentally, excludes kits. Kits are described in §15.25, which only mentions "TV Interface Devices.")