Geoff Harvey Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 No competition to LOR internationally, It does NOT support 240V 50Hz power.There is also no mention of DC boards or low voltage control which is a MUST for my display.They have a long way to go........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Frank Picozzi wrote: I don't know guys. If you're hoping for software that will make sequences for you I think you need to re-think your choice of animated lighting as a hobby.And I believe you are overlooking a very valuable asset and I stand by it, an auto sequencer would be an extreme plus, Not eveyone has mega trees or mini trees (i don't) and my arches are made of coro plastic.But back to the point of why an auto sequence IS needed (and I have thought about it, quite a lot!):#1. Sequencing for a beginner is and can be confusing, having software that could create a sequence on the fly would KEEP folks in the hobby because they wouldn't get so flustered and frustrated, then quit and sell off all their investment for less than they paid for it. So people that say they don't want it, I see an ulterior motive here.2. Even a seasoned sequencer may come up on a time where they don't have the time to really put in the time for all the songs they were hoping to use, the "auto sequencer" would be a great tool and time saver for these folks too. Now just think how many songs you've tried to put in your display and didn't get done because you had other committments that got in the way, family, school, work. etc. And I seriously, and I do mean SERIOUSLY doubt that not a one of us can say we haven't encountered something that kept uis from completing everything we were hoping to get done in the sequencing arena for our display.3. Just because you use an auto sequence to run some songs, doesn't mean all your sequences were generated in that manner, you also have the option to go back in and edit these auto generated sequences to make them more personal and to your liking. And you still have the option of creating them from scratch on your own. That is a WIN-WIN situation.I see anything that makes it easier for us to do what we do as a PLUS and a BENEFIT, not a hindrence, and definitely not a threat (but some seem to take it that way), but like the new owners of a company once said, "Change is inevitable, and it will please some, others will continue to b*tch and moan because they feel threatened by new and easier ways to do things". And they still think the old way is the best way. This is absolutely false, sometimes the old way still works, yes, but sometimes IT IS NOT the best way to do or complete a job.Personally, and I know I am NOT alone in this, many of us would like to see an auto sequence generator incorporated into LOR.So how would you like it if that option was removed from the SuperStar software? It has an auto sequencer generator for RGB items, so why can't the Sequence Editor have one as well?I'd rather see more people that get into this stay in it and enjoy it, as opposed to abandoning it because they got frustrated trying to sequence too much, too soon, the auto sequence generator would keep these folks in and still alllow them to re-work those sequences to make them better, they would still learn the tricks, tips and other criteria, it's just they wouldn't be jumping in, and then finding out, It takes how long to do that?!!So I still see a real need for such an option, even though some of you do not and think it is or would be a worthless tool and I strongly disagree, I believe it would be the most widely used tool in our arsenal if it were available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Picozzi Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Orville wrote: Frank Picozzi wrote: I don't know guys. If you're hoping for software that will make sequences for you I think you need to re-think your choice of animated lighting as a hobby.And I believe you are overlooking a very valuable asset and I stand by it, an auto sequencer would be an extreme plus, Not eveyone has mega trees or mini trees (i don't) and my arches are made of coro plastic.But back to the point of why an auto sequence IS needed (and I have thought about it, quite a lot!):#1. Sequencing for a beginner is and can be confusing, having software that could create a sequence on the fly would KEEP folks in the hobby because they wouldn't get so flustered and frustrated, then quit and sell off all their investment for less than they paid for it. So people that say they don't want it, I see an ulterior motive here.2. Even a seasoned sequencer may come up on a time where they don't have the time to really put in the time for all the songs they were hoping to use, the "auto sequencer" would be a great tool and time saver for these folks too. Now just think how many songs you've tried to put in your display and didn't get done because you had other committments that got in the way, family, school, work. etc. And I seriously, and I do mean SERIOUSLY doubt that not a one of us can say we haven't encountered something that kept uis from completing everything we were hoping to get done in the sequencing arena for our display.3. Just because you use an auto sequence to run some songs, doesn't mean all your sequences were generated in that manner, you also have the option to go back in and edit these auto generated sequences to make them more personal and to your liking. And you still have the option of creating them from scratch on your own. That is a WIN-WIN situation.I see anything that makes it easier for us to do what we do as a PLUS and a BENEFIT, not a hindrence, and definitely not a threat (but some seem to take it that way), but like the new owners of a company once said, "Change is inevitable, and it will please some, others will continue to b*tch and moan because they feel threatened by new and easier ways to do things". And they still think the old way is the best way. This is absolutely false, sometimes the old way still works, yes, but sometimes IT IS NOT the best way to do or complete a job.Personally, and I know I am NOT alone in this, many of us would like to see an auto sequence generator incorporated into LOR.So how would you like it if that option was removed from the SuperStar software? It has an auto sequencer generator for RGB items, so why can't the Sequence Editor have one as well?I'd rather see more people that get into this stay in it and enjoy it, as opposed to abandoning it because they got frustrated trying to sequence too much, too soon, the auto sequence generator would keep these folks in and still alllow them to re-work those sequences to make them better, they would still learn the tricks, tips and other criteria, it's just they wouldn't be jumping in, and then finding out, It takes how long to do that?!!So I still see a real need for such an option, even though some of you do not and think it is or would be a worthless tool and I strongly disagree, I believe it would be the most widely used tool in our arsenal if it were available.Sorry Clay, I just can't agree with you. I've been around for a while now and I never recall anyone saying"I bought all this stuff but I'm going to sell it because the sequencing is too hard for me". Come on now, if sequencing is too much for someone they could always download sequences or even buy them. An auto sequencer will never be able to do a very good job.This is not a turn-key or plug and play hobby. It's a very time consuming and expensive hobby. I draw as much pleasure in creating my display as I do enjoying the end product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrypowerz Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 A couple of things....Sequencing software is no trivial endeavor, and without a demo available it would be hard to see where the problems are, but I am sure there are a few.No mention of the things needed for runtime... scheduler, show builder, etc.The controller is downright puny... is the assumption made that you will only have a couple of LED only strands per channel?I mean if you want an experimenter play toy...fine.There is no way a serious decorator would consider this thing...Heat sinking, 40 power cables coming off one board, getting 45 amps INTO the thing... even if it could handle it (I question that).Automatic sequencing... color organs are really cool in their own right and there are some really serious designs dating back to the 60's. But the problem is that it all becomes boring quickly since it takes the creative input out of the equation. The brain quickly learns what to expect, and it is fairly repetitive. I think Mr. Christmas included the ability to jack music intro their second generation boxes.Nothing wrong with this approach, but it really isn't in the same league with what most of us HERE want to do. Sure there is a market for this stuff, but it isn't this market.Just my take on it.... YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Simmons Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 What Frank and Terry said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Picozzi Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 George Simmons wrote: What Frank and Terry said.Where's the like button?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy West Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 My wife calls herself the Halloween Widow. :shock:I am trying to program all my sequences so I can move onto building my props. (I think about her from time to time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodman1369 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Whoa Firestorm!!! Are we actually having a heated discussion about Not haveing a handy feature??? If you don't want to use it...Don't...if you are like me and need some easy way to create sequences whilst you learn the software and how to create and customize your own...Use It! I think some experienced people just don't want a flood of flashing lights in their neck of the woods...they want to be special...well...they Are and Always will be...I'm sure the ones you make yourself after practice will "outshine" the automatic created...We don't even Have this feature as of yet...just know that it's out there and coming down the road...I just know that it will sell a LOT more controllers for LOR and THAT is the goal for them...isn't it? Why don't them that want auto-sequencing just cross your fingers and wait (while practicing to match the big boys) and them that Don't...just keep on doing that voodoo that you do...so well... (so the rest of us can copy the good bits) Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 rodman1369 wrote: Whoa Firestorm!!! Are we actually having a heated discussion about Not haveing a handy feature??? If you don't want to use it...Don't...if you are like me and need some easy way to create sequences whilst you learn the software and how to create and customize your own...Use It! I think some experienced people just don't want a flood of flashing lights in their neck of the woods...they want to be special...well...they Are and Always will be...I'm sure the ones you make yourself after practice will "outshine" the automatic created...We don't even Have this feature as of yet...just know that it's out there and coming down the road...I just know that it will sell a LOT more controllers for LOR and THAT is the goal for them...isn't it? Why don't them that want auto-sequencing just cross your fingers and wait (while practicing to match the big boys) and them that Don't...just keep on doing that voodoo that you do...so well... (so the rest of us can copy the good bits) Peace[align=center]EXACTLY my Point too![/align][align=center] [/align][align=left] And so far the Poll I set up at:[/align][align=left]http://forums.lightorama.com/view_topic.php?id=26473&forum_id=81&msg=1As of this post:Want/Yes: 11Against/No: 7This should get interesting to see how it comes out at the end of the 90 day run.[/align] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightzilla Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Paul Roberson wrote: Possible LOR competition?I have yet to see ANY competition for LOR, and I actually started with Animated Lighting's software and controllers.Just because someone sells something that may do the same thing does not make them any competition. Like Paul I too started with Animated Lighting software & controllers. The AD software had buttons on it that did not work, to get to the visualizer was a chore in it's self, but the software did the job. 2008 & 2009 saw some folks sell there AL controllers and either went Lor or D.I.Y. The controllers were OK other than a jack problem.However just be thankful you have the Lor 2 software to work with and great customer service.I actually started a thread on this "Revival Controllers" on PC a couple of month ago. I was wondering if anyone had any info on this company.I wonder if the folks at LSP have contacted them? Then they could add another controller to their list of controllers that LSP runs.I bought the LSP software when it 1st came out but I will not use it to run my Lor controllers because I would feel like I was betraying Lor. I sometimes think the Lor should change protocol in their new generation of controllers so that only the Lor software works with it and no other software.Even if there was "automatic sequencing" available there would be a good chance that we would need to do some manual touch up to it anyways and so we can still have a chance to put some final touches to the " automatic sequence".If there was a feature for "automatic timing marks" for beat, voice, cymbals etc then I personally would be grateful. Timing marks are the most time consuming thing about sequencing. The beat wizard is one thing but if you do voice as well then that takes time and "automatic timing marks" would be a great tool.Displays do close down for 1 reason or another each year and "taking up to much valuable time" is one of the reasons that displays shut down. "Automatic sequencing" might help that not to happen as offend.I would welcome "automatic sequencing" especial when "time" is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Young Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Terry, you beat me to the punch!I would just going to suggest using a color organ. Believe it or not, I have one tree in my display that used several hundred C5s (now C5 LEDs) that I still run, using a color organ I built back in the early 1960's when I was in high school. I keep it, as it was my first attempt at "sequencing". It has been part of our display (intermittently), since 1983, after I first saw the "Living Singing Christmas Tree" at the Chapel...That being said I could not imagine an entire display using that!:shock:Actually from some of the sequencing I have seen over the years however, some folks could use a Mr. Christmas/color organ/autosequencing software of some sort, because essentially their lights blink to the beats, and that's about it! That could easily be automated, and if folks are happy with that, so be it!Any automated software would more than likely work off of rhythm (beats), frequencies, and/or volume levels (just like a color organ). It would differ by using a digital approach (digital effects like twinkling, etc) rather than strictly analog as the color organs do, but it still would need to be based in large part on one/more of the above three.Animated Lighting's approach is geared for commercial/non hobbyist folks who have the $$ to purchase and setup large, often commercial, displays. AL sells quite a bit of decent pre-sequenced music for that those folks that are not interested/don't have the time to try sequencing their own software.LOR could make some $$ on this, if they were to expand on what they have available as far as sequences for sale. To stay legal they would need to link the sequences to the musical selections they use that could be purchased on-line, from places like Amazon, etc. I know Darryl B sequenced the LOR selections that are still available for sale on the LOR website.We also have quite a few folks on these forums that will sequence for individuals for a reasonable fee, so there are alternatives, for those that lack the time to do their own sequencing.My opinion mirrors the majority of those posting - good sequencing is work and takes time, but once you are done you have a unique display, something no one else has. Whether the average public would be able to appreciate that or not is another issue!Finally, given the advances in the software we use, which has been based on user, and beta tester input, the task of sequencing has gotten much easier.Bottom line, it's like everything else in life - you get out of something what you are willing to put into it.Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 lightzilla wrote: Paul Roberson wrote: Possible LOR competition?I have yet to see ANY competition for LOR, and I actually started with Animated Lighting's software and controllers.Just because someone sells something that may do the same thing does not make them any competition. I sometimes think the Lor should change protocol in their new generation of controllers so that only the Lor software works with it and no other software.Then you become "proprietary" and I think LOR may actually avoids that by doing it the way they do it. After all, if someone is more comfortable with another software package to run their controller(s) and it works, wouldn't this be more productive and effective for LOR? After all, by allowing OTHER software to operate their controllers, they have a niche where they can sell more product because it is "compatible" with other software that is avaialble to the end user. And it should be that end users choice what software they'd prefer to operate their display controllers with.So even though I prefer to use the LOR software, I'm glad that LOR has the good sense to make their systems NON-PROPRIETARY in this manner.Just think of the software that came about because LOR does not do this, SuperStar Software ring a bell?. HolidaySoft Designer, the goodies that ItsMeBobo comes up with for our use, and I'm sure there are probably others too.If LOR was Proprietary and changed this, these folks would probably have never developed these software packages/tools to USE WITH LOR products. So you have to really think about this.Look how many digital cameras are out there and look at how many are still "proprietary" in the sense you can't use things you may have from one camera to another because of these proprietary restrictions. It's why I don't buy "Kodak" brand digital cameras for that very reason, so by being proprietary, Kodak just lost a sale. If I were building any item such as that or like LOR, I would never make anything proprietary because I'd feel like I was just shooting myself in the foot, mainly because I'd be losing sales to other companies that may have, or sell a similar, or identical product. Being proprieatary IS NOT good for business as so many may think it is. I'll bet millions in sales alone are lost due to being "proprieatary" in nature. But some companies just haven't bothered to figure this one out yet.Just my thoughts on why creating specialized protocols or proprietary options shouldn't really be a viable option. If I were a company I want to make money, not lose it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 [align=center]Now those were some excellent points Greg.[/align]I agree with: You get out of it what you put in.Although there are some songs that are just such a pain in the butt to sequence, it would be nice if the software *had* an auto sequence generator for such songs, use it, then go and edit the sequence to work it into your own style. THIS IS WHAT I WOULD MAINLY USE an "AUTO SEQUENCE GENERATOR" FOR!So to me, at least, this would be a valuable tool to use right alongside my own style of sequencing my display.Others may still disagree, but think about this, how many times have we seen someone ask about "how do I start sequencing this particular song" or "I'm having real issues sequencing this song"? Plenty, so the "auto sequence generator" would be a big plus here, and why I think it would still be a viable tool to use, even for the seasoned sequencer.Sure some may only use it and leave it at that, but I think those of us that enjoy sequencing, which I do, could use a little help from time to time on getting a difficult song sequenced. This is why I believe an auto sequence generator tool to be a valuable asset for a lot of folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Picozzi Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 rodman1369 wrote: Whoa Firestorm!!! Are we actually having a heated discussion about Not haveing a handy feature??? If you don't want to use it...Don't...if you are like me and need some easy way to create sequences whilst you learn the software and how to create and customize your own...Use It! I think some experienced people just don't want a flood of flashing lights in their neck of the woods...they want to be special...well...they Are and Always will be...I'm sure the ones you make yourself after practice will "outshine" the automatic created...We don't even Have this feature as of yet...just know that it's out there and coming down the road...I just know that it will sell a LOT more controllers for LOR and THAT is the goal for them...isn't it? Why don't them that want auto-sequencing just cross your fingers and wait (while practicing to match the big boys) and them that Don't...just keep on doing that voodoo that you do...so well... (so the rest of us can copy the good bits) PeaceI would hardly call the debate in this thread a "heated discussion". however when you make a statement like: " I think some experienced people just don't want a flood of flashing lights in their neck of the woods...they want to be special" that could be conceived as an inflammatory remark and make some people upset. I will choose not to be upset and just assume that you didn't mean it in a negative fashion.For myself, I get great pleasure seeing so many people come to watch what I've created, it enhances their Christmas season. I would LOVE if a bunch of people in my neighborhood did displays and gave so many people an added joy at Christmas time.My point is that I feel that there's no need for auto-sequencing software. As others have said there are alternatives to a lack of time/talent required for sequencing. You can download sequences for free, buy them from LOR or WOW lights, or other hobbyists and then adapt them to your display. I'm pretty sure that George Simmons - who has posted in this thread- even sells sequences.Any auto-sequence feature would be nothing more than a blink on blink off deal. Someone could do it like that after an hour of playing around with the LOR software. hell, you could even just use the Tapper Wizard and insert the beats to control your lights. or you could just buy a Mr Christmas gizmo.I think someone would learn more from buying or downloading a sequence and studying it than they could by having a computer do it for them. This is a time consuming hobby and there really are no shortcuts to creativity. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightzilla Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Orville wrote: lightzilla wrote: I sometimes think the Lor should change protocol in their new generation of controllers so that only the Lor software works with it and no other software.Just my thoughts on why creating specialized protocols or proprietary options shouldn't really be a viable option. If I were a company I want to make money, not lose it!True!Do you use LSP to run your controllers? If not, why not? I do not because I like the Lor software and like I said I would feel like I betrayed Lor but that is just me and how I fell.However if I was still an AL controller user I would welcome the LSP software because I know from experience what the AD software was like, but the Lor 2 software is good stuff and so that is why I feel that way.Looks like Orville & I only like the idea of "auto sequencing" Like I said earlier I would like an "Auto Timing Marks" feature that does more than pick up the beats but voice and what not too.How much would 10 songs cost to be sequenced by someone if you have 300+ channels? $1000.00 plus?The software for "auto sequencing" might be $150.00, but if it was added into the Lor software then it would be cheaper yet.Even if this feature was included in the Lor software that does not mean that you need to use it, it would be there for those who might want to use it. Likely out of curiosity folks might try it just to see want happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Latest poll results show MORE folks want it than not.22 votes total as of this post: 8 against, 14 for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Picozzi Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Orville wrote: Latest poll results show MORE folks want it than not.22 votes total as of this post: 8 against, 14 for.Actually your poll question does not ask people if they want it, it asks if they would use it if it exists. 7 people said yes, 6 people said they would use it but still do some of their own, one said maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 lightzilla wrote: Orville wrote: lightzilla wrote: I sometimes think the Lor should change protocol in their new generation of controllers so that only the Lor software works with it and no other software.Just my thoughts on why creating specialized protocols or proprietary options shouldn't really be a viable option. If I were a company I want to make money, not lose it!True!Do you use LSP to run your controllers? If not, why not? I do not because I like the Lor software and like I said I would feel like I betrayed Lor but that is just me and how I fell.However if I was still an AL controller user I would welcome the LSP software because I know from experience what the AD software was like, but the Lor 2 software is good stuff and so that is why I feel that way.I have no idea what LSP is, I have used LOR software from day 1, starting with their DEMO version before I got my first controller and bought my license.Thought I was quite clear in that post about using LOR software in this statement:So even though I prefer to use the LOR software, I'm glad that LOR has the good sense to make their systems NON-PROPRIETARY in this manner. But I also like to have and leave my options open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Frank Picozzi wrote: Orville wrote: Latest poll results show MORE folks want it than not.22 votes total as of this post: 8 against, 14 for.Actually your poll question does not ask people if they want it, it asks if they would use it if it exists. 7 people said yes, 6 people said they would use it but still do some of their own, one said maybe.Again point missed Frank, more people would use it! Therefore that DOES show a NEED for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Herberger Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Orville wrote: [align=center]Now those were some excellent points Greg.[/align]I agree with: You get out of it what you put in.Although there are some songs that are just such a pain in the butt to sequence, it would be nice if the software *had* an auto sequence generator for such songs, use it, then go and edit the sequence to work it into your own style. THIS IS WHAT I WOULD MAINLY USE an "AUTO SEQUENCE GENERATOR" FOR!So to me, at least, this would be a valuable tool to use right alongside my own style of sequencing my display.Others may still disagree, but think about this, how many times have we seen someone ask about "how do I start sequencing this particular song" or "I'm having real issues sequencing this song"? Plenty, so the "auto sequence generator" would be a big plus here, and why I think it would still be a viable tool to use, even for the seasoned sequencer.Sure some may only use it and leave it at that, but I think those of us that enjoy sequencing, which I do, could use a little help from time to time on getting a difficult song sequenced. This is why I believe an auto sequence generator tool to be a valuable asset for a lot of folksI don't think enough different colors were used above.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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