Multiple show locations at once ??

[beeiilll]

Okay all you seasoned LOR veterans, here is a hypothetical case for you to ponder and see what you can come up with.
I live in a small town surronded by mountains (relatively speaking) and am pondering doing a multi=location show setup in the next year or two.
I would like to run 3 or 4 displays at different locations all running the same show setup at the same time. This would probably consist of a few thousand lights and approx. 48 to 96 channels per location.
The max distance from the "base" show to any other display could reach up to 4 miles away.
I have been thinking of using lasers to transmit the show to each location by encoding the data onto the laser stream then decode it back to info and run the show at each location that way since I can get a clear "line of sight" to all locations.
I could just put a computer at each location and run the same show, but I want a way to be "in control" of each show location from one place hence the need to have all the locations tied together.
Barring the time delay factor and providing a feedback to the central location for each site I wanted to get some ideas for doing this from others who have not tried to "overthink" this as I have so far.
I already have a laser setup that I built many years ago that I can transmit voice out and back up to 5 miles without much trouble (excluding extreme weather problems) so that is not much of a problem.
I'm wondering which way to go with the show info though.
Do I transmit an RS 485 data stream to each location and then decode it directly to a "master" controller at each site with the other controllers daisy chained?
Or do I send the "show info" out to each site to a computer at each site (much more expensive but better control and storage of music and files at each location)?
I will be using music at each location so this is a "full show" so to speak at each site.

Think about it and give me some ideas.
Thanks
Bill

[Guest wbottomley]

Bill... using E1.31 and the EthConGateway, it is possible. Andrew, Mr. Packethead, controlled a show in the US from Australia.

[Steve Constantino]

beeiilll wrote:

Okay all you seasoned LOR veterans, here is a hypothetical case for you to ponder and see what you can come up with.
I live in a small town surronded by mountains (relatively speaking) and am pondering doing a multi=location show setup in the next year or two.
I would like to run 3 or 4 displays at different locations all running the same show setup at the same time. This would probably consist of a few thousand lights and approx. 48 to 96 channels per location.
The max distance from the "base" show to any other display could reach up to 4 miles away.
I have been thinking of using lasers to transmit the show to each location by encoding the data onto the laser stream then decode it back to info and run the show at each location that way since I can get a clear "line of sight" to all locations.
I could just put a computer at each location and run the same show, but I want a way to be "in control" of each show location from one place hence the need to have all the locations tied together.
Barring the time delay factor and providing a feedback to the central location for each site I wanted to get some ideas for doing this from others who have not tried to "overthink" this as I have so far.
I already have a laser setup that I built many years ago that I can transmit voice out and back up to 5 miles without much trouble (excluding extreme weather problems) so that is not much of a problem.
I'm wondering which way to go with the show info though.
Do I transmit an RS 485 data stream to each location and then decode it directly to a "master" controller at each site with the other controllers daisy chained?
Or do I send the "show info" out to each site to a computer at each site (much more expensive but better control and storage of music and files at each location)?
I will be using music at each location so this is a "full show" so to speak at each site.

Think about it and give me some ideas.
Thanks
Bill

Ok. It is quite easy to do. I worked on a large show with Pyro, lights, sound and lazers. The show was over 12 miles around. We used Freewave industrial radios.

http://www.freewave.com/products/category-24.html

http://www.freewave.com/files/datasheets/HTPlus%20Data%20Sheet%203.31.09.pdf

The key to doing a show like this is and having it work every time is to have a stable control network. Now for the show I did we had 2 networks one was a back up. But I don't see the need for that for a Christmas light display. Soon LOR will have ARTNET capabilities witch will work grate with the freewave radios, but they will also work with RS232 and RS485.

Don't try to run the network over the Internet. Well it may work, it's not to stable. There is just to many points of failure.

The next problem to over come is the audio, keeping everything sync up. You can send the audio over the network but it can get pricey to do that. The AD and DA that have any good audio quality cost a lot.

It would almost be easier to run a PC or Mp3 player at each location you can still have it all controlled from one location by just transmitting a start and stop command over the network. On the big shows we would also transmit SYMTE Time Code to sync everything up.

Steve

[beeiilll]

Thanks for the replies. This is the kind of info I need to help decide.

William
I have just started to look into the E1.31 and the EthConGateway idea myself so can't comment on it yet but will keep looking.

Steve
It sounds like your way of using the radios to transmit everything to each site and then use an Mp3 controller to house the music at each site would probably be the way to do this.

My biggest problem is that there is really no way to have any "hardwiring" between sites so they are all going to be on there own.
Each site will be isolated from the others and only a radio signal will be the way to "connect" them together.

Well just have to keep looking and learning to see what to do.

Thanks for the help.
Bill

[Steve Constantino]

Yesterday I was talking to good friend of mine (show automation guy at "KA" in Vegas) and told him what you wanted to do and we both thought it would be good to use a PC instead of a Mp3 player at each location. Doing this you could run a remote desk top app on each pc so you could confirm all is good at each location. If you use the Free wave radios you wouldn't even need Internet at each location to use the remote desk top. You could run all that over the radio network. It would work in real time with no lags.

Steve

[Tim Benson]

Do all 3 sites really need to be in exact sync. with each other ?
If not, then using a mp3 controller or laptop at each location would
be the simplest solution. And if they do need to be in sync ? Why ?
Save your money on the fancy networking and buy more controllers
and lights ! In this hobby, anything that can go wrong, WILL ! At the
absolute worst possible time.

Tim

[Steve Constantino]

Tim Benson wrote:

In this hobby, anything that can go wrong, WILL ! At the
absolute worst possible time.

Tim

Do you have lots of problems with your show?

You said "And if they do need to be in sync ? Why ?" Why not! If he can be pull it off more power to him.


You should always try to push the envelope and try new things. Because it is a hobby it gives people the chance to try things that no one is doing. And if you fail, oh well. You learn from what went wrong and move forward. It's just a hobby.

NOW! If people are paying to see the show or someone is paying for you to set up a show, then, "THE SHOW MUST GO ON" you must have a full proof system and back ups in place if something were to go wrong.

My Show I run two PCs. One as a back up. If one were to go down then the other would take over. Even right in the middle of a song. The system works well, but it's never needed to go into back up. Is it needed. No, but it's cool to have.

Steve

[beeiilll]

Well in this hobby another common adage is
"Go big or go home" !
Do the sites have to be in sync? Probably not down to the millisecond no, but I want them to be for the extra effect that it would bring into having several places all running the same show at the same time.

And I am one of those people like Steve. I have a second computer as a backup sitting on the table with my show computer and it could be switched over too in a few seconds if need be to keep the show going.

Also by being able to sync up the sites it will be possible to run a show that can have effects "traveling" around the circuit of the sites that can make an awesome WOW effect to things. I could possibly have up to 10 different sites around the area that would all need to be controlled eventually.

Now tell me that 10 different places around town all running the same show or basic shows with interaction between sites would not be a wild and fun show to do?

Think of having two sites that are on hilltops on opposite sides of a lake. Now you can take something like the illusion of a cannon going off on one site and have the "hit" show up on the other site during the show if things are in sync as well as way too many cool effects that do rely on timing and sync between sites.

It is possible that I may just turn this into a year round style of setup that could run shows all through the year tuned to the time of the year. Possiblities are endless.

And most of all - I just want to see if I can do it !!

That is one of the best things about this hobby and the test that it can be to your skills and ingenuity.

Push the envelope, make those little eyes open wide in awe, and get the adults to go "WOW, did you see that?".
Then you get a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment like no other.
I will never have enough controllers or lights but I will make some statement with what I have none the less!!!

I have only had one problem with my shows so far and that was a bad Cat5 cable that got fixed the next day.

And Steve you are right. I talked to a friend who works on large stage lighting display systems and I agree on using a PC at every site to make things a bit more "goof proof" and controllable as well.
I am liking the FreeWave radio linking as well from the looks of it so far.
I think this could really make one heck of a display setup around the town if it comes together.

Thanks again for the help.

Bill