Remote extension/AC control

[JZenor]

Been wanting to get into this hobby (is that the right word?) for a while now and just took the leap ordering 2 CTB16PC kits for this year. Sure to add more next year.

I should also mention I'm a newbie with an engineering background - a dangerous combination to be sure. Anyway the potential issue I have is that my Christmas setup will have 4 channels on the other side of the driveway from everything else. I've been trying to figure out the best place to locate the controllers for shortest extension cord runs, etc. Anyway I slice it, getting to those 4 channels is a problem. I don't want to run extension cords across the driveway and have them run over all the time and I don't want 4 extension cord runs of over 100 feet going along the house, through the garage, out the other side, etc.

So here's what I was thinking, some circuit level tinkering: move 4 of the output triacs and optocoupler sets to a remote junction box on the other side of the driveway and run a simple Cat5 cable from the controller to the junction box. The Cat5 will only carry a very low level signal and all of the AC control will happen in the remote junction box. That way it is only 1 wire to take the circuitous route to the other side of the yard and it's cheap Cat5.

Here is my initial construction concept: take 4 of the output signals from either the U4 or U5 flip-flop IC and wire them directly into the back of a Keystone-type RJ-45 jack. The Keystone jacks essentially snap onto the wires from the flip-flops - very easy. Then do not install 4 of the triacs and optocouplers (i.e. Q4-Q7, U8-U11 and R11-R14). Then in another small waterproof enclosure you assemble a small pcb with the triacs and optocouplers, another Keystone type RJ45, one AC input and 4 AC sockets (outputs). You connect the main controller to the "remote" box via Cat5.

The only issues I see are: Can the flip-flops drive that long of a cable? Maybe. Will noise or interference be an issue? I don't think so. Do I want to proto-board this or create and make a real pcb? Is it worth the trouble?

Anyone try something similar or have input? Would this be useful for anyone else?

Thanks,
JZ

[gizmomkr]

Id start by saying I think its a terrible idea. Obviously its not going to be supported - but do I think it would work, yeah - probably. Will the IC's drive it - yeah, I think they would. Id probably go with STP instead of UTP to be safe. Making the board, and heatsink and enclosure..... Its a lot of work.

If you just worry about lots of cords on the driveway. I would get some 5 or 6 conductor SOW http://www.nationalsupplyonline.com/Electrical_Wire.html share the netural line - and run that across the driveway. You could also pickup "yellow jacket" cord covers. I used to use them in event production, they are made to hold cords and get run over - we would have 600 amp mains running to generators and run them over with forklifts all day long.

But honestly - just get another controller. I believe there is an 8ch unit (although the cost is the same as the 16ch pc kit. I'd just get another 16ch controller, I bet you will find more items to plug into it .

[Scott T]

The danger here is the engineer in your head and it's going to cost you more (time and money) in the long run.

GUARANTEED !!!

Controllers cost less than extension cords at some points in your display. At first controller is everything and you use all channels. After a couple years of building, they are just another part in the system. I don't even use all the channels in some of my boxes. An extra box is sometimes a routing thing (power distribution)

I always have one extra in case I have a problem during the season.

[Dave Batzdorf]

If you are all that worried about the expense and wastefulness of a 16-ch controller, get an 8. One power connection and one comm connection. you could even use an Ell across and eliminate one cable.

[ErnieHorning]

JZenor wrote:

Here is my initial construction concept...

The only issues I see are: Can the flip-flops drive that long of a cable? Maybe. Will noise or interference be an issue?

Anyone try something similar or have input? Would this be useful for anyone else?

Will it work? Absolutely!

This is exactly how the DIY guys over at DoItYourselfChristmas have designed several of their controllers. All of my DIY SSR’s are located remotely in quad outlet boxes and are connected to the controller with CAT5 cables.

Is it worth it? With a LOR controller, probably not. It was never designed this way and kind of expensive to experiment on if you don’t get it to work.

[PaulXmas]

ECHO!



Buy another controller and wireless connection.

[Steven]

I feel bad adding to this thread because I don't like to repeat what has already been said, but I agree with most of these answers and feel it needs to be emphasized again.

Like many here, I am also an engineer with a strong DIY background. I still can't help but over-engineer things and get the most efficient use out of the stuff I have, and from that point of view I agree 100% that it is better to avoid long runs of extension cords when you can use something "lighter".

What you are describing, making the SCR's remote, is how most animated lighting was done in the 1990's, before cheap networked controllers. At that time, the remote SCR's were packaged as solid-state-relays (SSR's), and the control lines went directly to digital I/O cards that were installed directly in the computer. This was the system used in:
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The problem is that by the time you add the costs of the weatherproof case, AC connectors, 8P8C sockets, plus the time you spend doing it (which is hard to measure, but is still significant), you'll find the price-per-performance is better if you get another controller.
[/align][align=left]In my first two years, I only had about 8 channels planned for the right side of the driveway, so I bought an 8-channel controller. In the 3rd year I outgrew that and replaced it with a 16PC unit, for about the same cost.

So, like everyone else here, I would advise you to get another 16-channel controller for the other side of your driveway, and leave some channels unused. I'll bet that next year the number of unused channels will magically shrink, and you'll have more time to engineer a new display element that makes a difference in the look of the display!
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[Ralphie]

How about constructing a simple PVC arch over your driveway. You could interface it with your controller or run it as a stand alone. The arch then becomes your means of providing power to the other side. I have done this many times myself. You can either run cables inside the PVC (which usually requires 11/4" or better) or use electrical ties to strap it to the back of the arch to conceal it.

Just another approach.

[mnkyboy]

I also concur with the others, get another 16 channel controller, that way you will have future growth potential.

Then either make a pvc arch across the driveway or use several of cable ramps.

These are the most cost effectives ones I found! I use one for my walkway to my front door. I know others that have ordered from discount ramps for their driveway solutions. For $90 a ramp, they are still not the most econmical solution, but one of the safest and simplest! Just lay them down and run your cables through them.



http://www.discountramps.com/rubber-cable-ramps.htm

You could also always tunnel under your diveway too..

[Steven]

mnkyboy wrote:

You could also always tunnel under your diveway too..

I ran a tunnel under the walkway to my front door using one of these. It took half of a Saturday because the dirt under the walkway has a lot of clay and rocks, but it looks good. On either side I put one of these.

I have never tried tunneling more than 3 feet. For that, you'll need something like this.

Edit: Or, for only $119.48, you can buy the Perfecto Hydro Drill 1502.

[bwaldrep]

Steven wrote:

mnkyboy wrote:

You could also always tunnel under your diveway too..

I ran a tunnel under the walkway to my front door using one of these. It took half of a Saturday because the dirt under the walkway has a lot of clay and rocks, but it looks good. On either side I put one of these.

I did the same exact thing on my walkway to the front door, and under a city/street sidewalk last summer. It worked great last year.

Once I got the tunnel done, I put in a piece of 3" PVC pipe to keep the tunnel in place.

[carsonpassey]

If your going under a drive way one way to do it. Is to buy a peice of grey eletrical pvc. Cover an end with duct tape. Dig a hole to the side and then pound the electic pvc under the driveway using a big hammer or sledge. It works, doesn't seem intuitive, but it works.



Uncovering the end you can draw a line through with a shop vac (or put a few in there before and then pull lines through.