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Carson Sequence

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Personally I see nothing wrong with adapting someone elses sequence that they have made freely available. I put together 3 sequences in 05 that took an average of 8-10 hours a piece. After two weeks of the same three songs in a loop I decided to add a fourht but did not have time to make a new one from scratch.

Enter Carsons sequence....

I was able to adapt carsons sequence to my display in no more then :30 minutes!! compared to the previous 8-10 hours each that was quite an improvment. Would I rely on adapting others work solely? No. I actually enjoy the creative process.

I even swith it up a bit. I alternate songs that make heavy use of color fades with songs that make heavy use of chasing lights. It is quite interesting but I get people how just love one or the other type of sequence.

So in summary I say share and share a like! If it helps bring new people into our hobby then there can be nothing worng with it.

my .02...

Frank

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Many of you (those that order a set anyway;)) will get chance to see a fair number of different renditions of Wizards in Winter among the 40 displays featured in Holiday Lights 2005 when the set becomes available for sale next week.

As you watch the visual interpretations of music these displays offer, you will appreciate the fact that you can take any given song, and completely change its visual impact by focusing on other than the simple beat of the song, by changing some of the focus of lighting to include the percussion, brass, and vocal segments, to name a few.

I think you will see what I mean.

Greg

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Tim I set up my mini's in the shape of a diamond this year and since I have no video I am sure it was not me you saw. However, with what I am going to do this year I will need to do a triangle shape. Hope you don't mind?:P Believe me it is going to be nothing like Carson's or anything else anyone has done before. I did share the idea with marty and would be happy to share with you as I value your opinion.

I did use TSO WIW this year but had it progamed in July so am sure it was not too much of a problem. BTW I will use at some time Carson's idea on the mini's shifting left to right but it is not too hard to figure out as I did something simular with the diamond.

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Not to be picky or anything. It's "Wizards IN Winter" or "WIW", not "of" :smile:. We have to set an example for the newbies :]. It's just a flesh wound :P.

Tom

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Man I seem to have hit a nerve. We all 'copy' each other to a certain degree: I saw Donny Counts big mega-tree a few years back and decided I had to have one. A lot of you saw megatrees from me, Darryl, or someone else and did the same. We all saw Chuck's mini trees (or someone else who copied Chuck) and copied them, too. This is cool, and fine, and a good thing IMHO.

My only point above is that I like to do things a little uniquely in our display. When I did our mega-tree, nobody that I knew of was using 3 differnet colors. I did our mini-trees in rope light spirals because I hadn't seen that done. For music, I try to choose things a little off the beaten path. That's just the way I am...

If someone wants to use sequences from someone else's display, and indeed make a mirror-image display based on someone else's, and the 'copied' person is fine with that -- more power to them. I'll never look down my nose at you, but I wouldn't personally do it that way.

I've had a lot of people email me asking for specs on some of our display elements -- particularly the mega tree. I'm always glad to help people create their own versions of these items. But I haven't shared sequences. Why?


  1. First of all, I generally edit the songs down. There's no legal way for me to give you audio to match my sequences, and without the audio, they would be worthless to you.
  2. My sequences would be very hard to adapt. I generally don't use the tapper wizard -- I divide the grid into tenths of seconds and just click in events as necessary. Unless you have a display that completely matches mine, it would be very hard to change over. There are no "timings" to easilly copy like you could in a tapped grid...
  3. Most of you don't like to run your displays the way we do. Most of you like lots of "dark moments" and "staging" and big bright flashes of light. I personally like to see lots of lights on at once, and as such, about 1/2 our display is static, and the rest I like to run LOTS of the channels on at once. I do a lot of very fast chase sequences, etc. instead of lots of "blinking to the beat".
  4. Because I like to keep our display unique, and pour about 15 hours or more into each sequence I do, I do feel a little bit of "selfish connection" to it. Maybe it's because I'm a software geek by day and therefore feel intellectual property is worth something...

As others have said, Darryl is planning on selling some of his sequences, and I've never seen him disparaged for it. Yet I've had some pretty un-friendly emails as well as comments here from people telling me how selfish I am not to share sequences... :{

-Tim

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tfischer wrote:

As others have said, Darryl is planning on selling some of his sequences, and I've never seen him disparaged for it. Yet I've had some pretty un-friendly emails as well as comments here from people telling me how selfish I am not to share sequences... :{

-Tim


I'm in the same boat... I usually edit my audio, which leaves no legal way to share the file.

I find that most people simply want to see something, anything, programmed. It's hard for some people to visualize things from their mind into a grid. Seeing it on the screen simply helps them get going.

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tfischer wrote:

Yet I've had some pretty un-friendly emails as well as comments here from people telling me how selfish I am not to share sequences... :{

-Tim

That's a shame Tim and sorry to hear that this is happening to you. There are plenty of sequences out there open to the public. There is no reason for people to get hateful about it. I begged for a few when I first started just to see how they did it and see some examples (thanks to those who did). But I never got hateful.

Tom

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I wish you guys would quit talking about this. I'm scared that Mark O. or Terry Dyke will read these posts, and try to start charging me royalties for copying parts of their displays. :laughing:

Bill:P

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OH MY GOSH I HIT THE "O" INSTEAD OF THE "I"!!!:shock:

Could it be that I am using this stupid laptop with a small keyboard instead of my contoured keyboard? Or maybe my fat fingers. Or maybe that I did not proof my writing.

Oh please forgive me everyone?

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

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Robin, all you have to say is WIW is WOW! LOL!!!

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Tim,

Funny thing. If you do something it is yours. If you want to share it that is ok with me. If you don't that is ok too. Honestly, I can not see why anyone will hammer you or Darryl for anything you do. Both of you have done a lot for this site and the members here and I for one am thankful to you both as well as others on this site. So live well young man and do what you want because they are yours afterall.

To those of you who disagree with Tim just keep it to yourself. Oh and Tim, I love chases. And I love to make that tree spin like a top too.

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Robin wrote:

OH MY GOSH I HIT THE "O" INSTEAD OF THE "I"!!!:shock:

Could it be that I am using this stupid laptop with a small keyboard instead of my contoured keyboard? Or maybe my fat fingers. Or maybe that I did not proof my writing.

Oh please forgive me everyone?

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Robin, I wasn't pointing out one person. It's in the this topic like that several times. Again, I'm not being picky.

And EAB, I like that phrase "WIW is WOW" because in fact, it really is :waycool:.

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Robin wrote:

To those of you who disagree with Tim just keep it to yourself. Oh and Tim, I love chases. And I love to make that tree spin like a top too.

I don't mind people disagreeing -- I just don't like people getting snarky about it... :laughing:

Tks for your support...

-Tim

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It's funny this topic has come up for me recently. My students are about to start Romeo and Juliet and I had a student ask if Shakespeare stole the ideas for his plays. I told them the idea was out there and Shakespeare took it and made it his own with the way he put the idea into his plays.

I am new at this and love to have ideas from the "masters." Copying is the highest form of flattery, but I would bet that very few, if any, people actually copy other's sequences. Most likely, they adapt them. That is what Shakespeare did.

Yes, I like analogies--it's part of being an English teacher.:happytree:

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Santas Helper wrote:

And EAB, I like that phrase "WIW is WOW" because in fact, it really is :waycool:.

Oh yeah!! It becons "Synchonize me, synchonize me"!! Just one of those tunes... Kinda like Silver Bells... It too...

Getting back to the copying... I saw a Carson idea that I saw in another thread which showed another angle to the famous synch... And, Carson used the "Hallelujah Chorus" from the Messiah to open his show...

Borrowing that idea, not copying it, I'm going to be using just the beginning of "Duel of the Fates" (Google it for more info on the soundtrack to Star Wars Episode I) to serve the same purpose... I'm not going to be doing exactly what Carson did, but I'm borrowing his idea... So, I'm honoring him... :P

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Hehe... Great thread! :laughing:
Personally, I wouldn't use anyone elses sequences either. That's kind of like cheating to me. I feel like if your going to put on a show, put on a show that you created otherwise, why bother? I was greatful to be able to look at some sequences and happy that the creators were nice enough to allow me to look at thier work.
It was helpful in seeing how things are done but, I wouldn't use it for any other purpose. When my light show starts, I want to have the feeling that wow, I did this.
Would I be so kind as to share my sequences? Probably not. I'm with Tim on this one,
you know, us Tims have to stick together. :laughing: Seriously though, I can see where pouring hours into a single sequence could make one feel a bit selfish about simply giving it away. Flame away!!!! :laughing:

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Wow (not wiw), this has become a heated debate!!! There is no right or wrong to this one. It all comes down to personal preference. I myself feel I own my work and wont share it either. As I get better and better I will help but I wont share a sequence. Even the sequence someone just sent me so that I could see if there was a spot that was messing up, I already deleted it because there is no reason for me to have a copy of someone else's work.

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itsmejrv wrote:

Wow (not wiw), this has become a heated debate!!!

I'm not sure how this can become a heated depate if your using initials to a song "Wizards In Winter". Is it because some thought it had "of" in it? Nothing wrong with that. Heck, I did at first. But I know better now.

I'll let this rest but will add, I'm sure some people would like to know the correct way of saying something when they are at a mini get-together or someone strolls by and ask, what is that song? You put on a great light show, why go short when explaining it? :]

Just my thoughts, Tom

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I've been watching this thread with interest. I've shared "starter" sequences with several hundred people over the last two years. I willingly do this to give people a head start. These are not complete sequences. They just include the timing and basic events. It's up to the individual user to adapt them to their display and "spread" the events in a way that fits their own idea of how the display should look. I've seen several videos from people who used these sequences and every one looks very original. These sequences are designed to help those trying to advance through the learning curve, not just to plug and play. It makes me feel great to know I have helped some to jump into computerized displays and put smiles on faces all over the world.

With that said, I don't share my complete sequences. I am very picky with my synchronization and spend countless hours preparing them. Like others have said, I consider these my own. I don't include "starters" of every sequence I do. I need to have a few that are unique.

My goal is to give people a head start. If they use the "starters" like they are intended the user will learn a lot in the process and soon be completely ont their own. I've heard back from several who now feel very confident in creating fantastic sequences from scratch. This makes it all worth it!

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2004 was my first year with LOR and I used one of Marty's sequences to get me started, and managed to get one put together on my own. Marty's really provided a good learning tool and illustrated some great techniques -- and clearly using his timing on my house was totally different than what he had in Utah (in case anyone wanted to compare).

That was enough training so that in 2005 I was able to put together a dozen songs on my own with very respectable results.

I have shared my sequences with a few people -- but only on a PM basis. Not a "y'all can download everything at www.takethis.com" kind of arrangement.

LOR is complicated for the non techno-savvy, and I think we can provide a lot of coaching and encouragement by sharing. But at some point it just becomes plagiarism in my mind.

Although I really like TSO (and had never heard of them before LOR), I've really had my fill of Wizards ... you won't be seeing that one here in 2006.

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Marty Slack wrote:

My goal is to give people a head start. If they use the "starters" like they are intended the user will learn a lot in the process and soon be completely ont their own. I've heard back from several who now feel very confident in creating fantastic sequences from scratch. This makes it all worth it!

And Marty, your goal has been met (with me). You provided me some starter sequences (along with a few other individuals out there) and now, I'm on my own. All it takes is getting an idea of how it works. How to use different types of effects for this or that. You and the others who share is just enough to get it all started, thats' enough right there!!!

You made it all worth it. Thank you!!! And to the others that shared. Thank you as well!!!

As a whole, we are the talent, we are the magicians, we are the ones to make dreams come true for the ones who enjoy the displays. Those dreams come from young children and up to the age who still enjoy the excellent shows provided.

That's what it's all about...... Because in the end, there is a smile to be met........

Tom

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Daniel,

Thanks for starting this topic. As you can see it turned into a very productive series of posts. It has brought me up to the next LOR contest for the year. I think a contest of the best "Wizards Sequence" with a pre-determined set of channels and and an animation window that has been pre-created. This could be judged by LOR users who could download the sequences and play the entries with the sequence editor. Not sure of the details yet but I think this has some potential. There may be so many entries that it becomes impractical for everyone to be a judge. You have me thinking.

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To build on your point Dan, maybe you could make up a "Rookie of the Year" award for first year LOR users.....or you could organize your contests based on number of channels so as to allow "little" guys like myself (less than 32 channels in the first year) to compete while the "Big Boys" (gender neurtral;) of course) can still go head-to-head with their crazy cool displays.

Flight 1 (aka "Newbies-R-Us") 32 channels or less

Flight 2 (aka "Look OUT, Getting Bigger Each Year") 32-64 channels

Flight 3 (aka "Mammoth Light Technicians") 65+ channels

It could make it fun for us 1st time users who feel overwhelmed with all of these 200+, 100K lights folks :D

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Um... I just wanted a few opinions! LOL Yes I like it when everyone sayes their opinion.




--Daniel L


LightORama wrote:

Daniel,

Thanks for starting this topic. As you can see it turned into a very productive series of posts. It has brought me up to the next LOR contest for the year. I think a contest of the best "Wizards Sequence" with a pre-determined set of channels and and an animation window that has been pre-created. This could be judged by LOR users who could download the sequences and play the entries with the sequence editor. Not sure of the details yet but I think this has some potential. There may be so many entries that it becomes impractical for everyone to be a judge. You have me thinking.

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I like the contest idea Dan... Maybe TSO can help you out with a free CD or something... :D

Could be fun...

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