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diagram for 5050 RGB LED setup


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#1 dito

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:41 PM

ok, i am overwhelmed at this point considering RGB LED vs individual ropelights. i know the RGB will be MUCH lighter to put on my roof line and millions more colors than rope lights (non RGB). cost will probably be less with RGB vs individual ropelights.

so far i have gathered that i will need at least the following:

5050 RGB Strips http://www.aliexpres...oating-RGB.html .

at least one power supplies http://www.aliexpres...S-approved.html .

And you can control the strip using the LOR controller http://store.lightor.../cmdedcca2.html

power wire for the strip (from the power supply I THINK)? 4 wire/speaker wire CL2 rated 100' http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

so my questions are:

-how do i get power to the power supply? do i plug a car battery to it or do i have to buy a plug/converter/adapter that plugs/connects to the power supply? I've heard i can use old computer power supply, what? how? ugh!

-where the hell does the power supply go in line with the other components? does it only plug into the "power input" of the LOR?

-how do i physically connect the LOR controller to the RGB strips? would i take up 3 channels/strip? for example channels 1,2,3 all go to same strip? but what about the common anode?

if someone has a drawing or technical "map"/diagram, it would be really helpful and GREATLY appreciated!

#2 dito

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:00 PM

ok, so i am pretty sure i got the power wire explenation wrong. i THINK the power wires (4wire) go from LOR controller to RGB string, but I am still not sure how you would only use 4 wires for 3 channels. 1 channel for each positive, and a shared negative (common anode)? but do you just hook up to any negative, or...?

#3 Andrew Bev

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:36 PM

You are almost right. Have a look at this photo, I just quickly put it together to give you an idea of how to do it.

The 4 wire go from the channels out to your strip.

The strip uses a common positve.

Each colour Red, Green, Blue wire uses one negitive channel of your LOR board and the Black wire goes to the positive of one the three channels.

Attached files


#4 Troy Mann

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:08 AM

This is how the RGB connects to the LOR DC control pannel

Attached files /uploads/imported/305344=16754-RGBlor.jpg


#5 Troy Mann

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:17 AM

dito wrote:

ok, i am overwhelmed at this point considering RGB LED vs individual ropelights. i know the RGB will be MUCH lighter to put on my roof line and millions more colors than rope lights (non RGB). cost will probably be less with RGB vs individual ropelights.

so far i have gathered that i will need at least the following:

5050 RGB Strips http://www.aliexpres...oating-RGB.html .

at least one power supplies http://www.aliexpres...S-approved.html .

And you can control the strip using the LOR controller http://store.lightor.../cmdedcca2.html

power wire for the strip (from the power supply I THINK)?  4 wire/speaker wire CL2 rated 100'  http://www.monoprice...&seq=1&format=2

so my questions are:

-how do i get power to the power supply? do i plug a car battery to it or do i have to buy a plug/converter/adapter that plugs/connects to the power supply? I've heard i can use old computer power supply, what? how? ugh!

-where the hell does the power supply go in line with the other components? does it only plug into the "power input" of the LOR?

-how do i physically connect the LOR controller to the RGB strips? would i take up 3 channels/strip? for example channels 1,2,3 all go to same strip? but what about the common anode?

if someone has a drawing or technical "map"/diagram, it would be really helpful and GREATLY appreciated!



The 12 power supply is actually a power converter. You will need a three wire 110v male end (maybe off an old extension cord). Connect ground, neg and pos correctly and off you go. Run your red and black wire from the output side to you LOR pannel.

#6 imacericg

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:25 AM

Quick thank you to Andrew and Troy.

I have been wanting to test the RGB waters and didn't know how everything connected to the controller. Being a visual person, the pics were awesome.

I just bought a power supply from Season Entertainment, 3 test pixels from Holiday Coro and the controller from LOR.

#7 hdracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:44 AM

What about your end caps? How you plan to attach the ends? Or do you plan on powering each strip indiviually?? Just curious... I've been doing some research over RGB aswell.
Just making sure im on the right track too. And possibly helping others think outside the box for materials needed.
My customers hate when they get sold something for their Harley & have to come back to buy a gasket or a bolt...
Johnny S.

#8 hdracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:49 AM

Also while Im thinking on this..

You can only control 5 (5) meter strips with a single controller depending on the length the controller is from the strips?

So with that question. In order to control 10 strips (5)meters each I would need a minimum of 2 controllers & how many power supplies?

Thanks

Johnny
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#9 Troy Mann

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:00 AM

hdracer wrote:

Also while Im thinking on this..

You can only control 5 (5) meter strips with a single controller depending on the length the controller is from the strips?

So with that question. In order to control 10 strips (5)meters each I would need a minimum of 2 controllers & how many power supplies?

Thanks

Johnny



That is correct one controller will run five RGB strips two controllers will run 10 and three controllers will run 16 strips. One of the power supplies should have 3 + + + and 3 - - - terminals which you may run 3 controllers with one power supplies.

#10 hdracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:03 AM

What wattage power suplly could handle up to 3 controllers sufficently with 16 (5) meter strips?
Johnny S.

#11 Troy Mann

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:17 AM

hdracer wrote:

What about your end caps?
I have not gotten that for because I am only planning on planning on using each strip individually.

How you plan to attach the ends? You really don't want to connect strips together equaling more 16.3 feet. When you go longer then 16.3 feet you get a power drop and the second strip. Meaning the second strip will be dimmer than the first.




#12 Troy Mann

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:22 AM

hdracer wrote:

What wattage power suplly could handle up to 3 controllers sufficently with 16 (5) meter strips?
http://www.aliexpres...S-approved.html is a good power supply. Remember is it a power converter; so it converts 110v into 12V. You are plugging the power converter into a normal 110v outlet. Each of the 3 outputs will produce 3 individual 12v sources



#13 hdracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:45 AM

So if I want to do around my windows & each window is 6ft. ea side & 4ft. top & bottom, which equals 20ft. What would be my options? Also as far as the ends in the windows I would need caps that carry the 4 wire ends to connect the corners in each window? Does Ray Wu carry the ends that make this happen?
Last question.. RGB is like LED, you can only run the power from one way through the lighting, not both ends?
Johnny S.

#14 bob_moody

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:17 AM

Can someone elaborate more on the programming required?

From the pictures given so far, I understand the 5 strips per controller (which oddly enough I happen to have for another project that never came to pass)

1 strip = 3 channels (1 Red, 1 Green, 1 Blue) x 5 strips = 15 channels... If my Jethro Bodine cipher machine is working correctly...

So programming is

Channel 1 = Strip 1, Red

Channel 2 = Strip 1, Green

Channel 3 = Strip 1, Blue

Channel 4 = Strip 2, Red ..

etc etc etc...

I can see a LOT of time, trial and effort in LOR S2. Does S3 provide a less than brute force method?

Pricing on the strips doesnt look bad, power supplies.. I have, controller I have...

Bob

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#15 digdeepfundraising

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:26 AM

this maybe a stupid question and if anyone wants to laugh at me go ahead i can take it lol

but is it as easy as me adding a CMB16D-QC to the 4 CTP16PC i already have and just programme it to be box 5 in the line ????
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#16 CLD Kevin

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:28 AM

Troy Mann wrote:

hdracer wrote:

What about your end caps?
I have not gotten that for because I am only planning on planning on using each strip individually.

How you plan to attach the ends? You really don't want to connect strips together equaling more 16.3 feet. When you go longer then 16.3 feet you get a power drop and the second strip. Meaning the second strip will be dimmer than the first.




That is not completely true. I actually double up my strips on the same controller for my display and had zero signs of dimming on the second strip. However, I did not double up on every channel...about half. I used the LOR DC board, 30A DC power supply, 18AWG 4-wire for the power feeds and only about 20ft of wire between. I also just recently did the same and the run was like 50ft...I was a little worried, but showed no problems.

Just make sure you do your own testing and take power reading. Hate for you to set up and then it doesnt work.

#17 Troy Mann

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:37 AM

hdracer wrote:

So if I want to do around my windows & each window is 6ft. ea side & 4ft. top & bottom, which equals 20ft. What would be my options?

I don't think you will run into that big of a problem with the extra 4 feet if you tie it together as one window equals one channel.

http://forums.lighto... strip end caps

Show some of the tubing and end caps


Also as far as the ends in the windows I would need caps that carry the 4 wire ends to connect the corners in each window?

Does Ray Wu carry the ends that make this happen? Yes


Last question.. RGB is like LED, you can only run the power from one way through the lighting, not both ends?

I believe you are correct. Unless I am missing something



#18 Troy Mann

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:42 AM

Thanks for the correction Cracker. I was also told not to double up, but now I am going to play around with it some more.

#19 Troy Mann

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:47 AM

digdeepfundraising wrote:

this maybe a stupid question and if anyone wants to laugh at me go ahead i can take it lol

but is it as easy as me adding a CMB16D-QC to the 4 CTP16PC i already have and just programme it to be box 5 in the line ????
That's all you have to do (as long as the DC controller unit number is set to 5 as well)



#20 digdeepfundraising

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:56 AM

thank you troy looks like im spending more now
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#21 digdeepfundraising

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:14 AM

does it need a heatsink fitted to it ???
Posted Image
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#22 hdracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:27 AM

Cracker please stay involved in this discussion... I like the positive & creative input! Im not afraid to test limits on things as long as people do like you have stated.. Check the voltage readings! I could go on about these things! I just want to be factual from what I have read to what folks here have done that is innovating!
I love innovating from ideas I have seen. Sometimes we gotta test some limits but check ALL for safety!
I appreciate everyones input on this matter!
once again thank you all for responding so quickly to my questions!!
Johnny
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#23 dito

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:01 AM

thank you all for the replies, it has helped clear things up, especially the photos! one question i still have is why can rope light LED be OK at 150ft runs, but RGB can only be 5-10Meter runs?
and yes, thanks cracker, i will have to test my own double strip to see if i get dimming.

#24 hdracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:00 AM

dito wrote:

one question i still have is why can rope light LED be OK at 150ft runs, but RGB can only be 5-10Meter runs?


I believe the answer would be amperage?? Don't quote me on that, but from my knowledge in electrical I think it would be amperage differances..
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#25 edvas69

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:51 AM

dito wrote:

thank you all for the replies, it has helped clear things up, especially the photos! one question i still have is why can rope light LED be OK at 150ft runs, but RGB can only be 5-10Meter runs?
and yes, thanks cracker, i will have to test my own double strip to see if i get dimming.



It has to do with Ohms law and the resistance of a cable, the voltage and the current.

Rope light is usually 110volt in the US and strip is usually 12vdc and some are 5vdc, so with some calculations we can show the difference the voltage makes to current for the same rated wattage used.



So the current required would be:

Current = power(watts) / Voltage

Current = 100 watts / 110 volts

= 0.91 amps @ 110 volts



Now for the same wattage used but running at 12vdc

current = 100 watts / 12 volts

= 8.3 amps @ 12 volts



The reason that strips are only 12vdc and 5vdc is because an LED has a rated forward voltage that it will run with, so the LEDs are connnected in series.

Example. An LED may have a forward voltage rating of 3 volts, if you connect 3 of theses LEDs in series you will get 9 volts and 3 volts will be required to be dropped through a resistor. This allows the strips to have a much smaller cuttable section than what is found on rope lights. For the same rated LED on a rope light working at 110v would require around 30+ LEDs connected in series to become an efficient LED circuit.



Now the next thing is resistance of a cable which effects the voltage and this as well can be shown using ohms law.

Voltage = Current (amps) x resistance (ohms)

So different cable sizes have a different resistance value, generally the larger the cable the lower the resistance.



20 guage wire has a resitance rating of 1.28 ohms per 100 feet

16 guage wire has a resitance rating of 0.40 ohms per 100 feet

So the voltage drop differences for a 5 amp load over 100 feet would look like this



20 gauge: Voltage = 5 amps x 1.28 ohms = 6.4 volts dropped over 100 feet



16 gauge: Voltage = 5 amps x 0.40 ohms = 2 volts dropped over 100 feet



So by using a lower voltage the % of voltage drop is a much higher with lower voltages than higher voltages over a given distance and this is why cable choice is also very important when using low voltage lighting and why power injection is used to get these extra distances.



I hope that makes it a bit more easier to understand why it is so

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#26 Steven

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:52 AM

hdracer wrote:

I believe the answer would be amperage?? Don't quote me on that, but from my knowledge in electrical I think it would be amperage differances..


That's part of the answer, but voltage and resistance is in there also!

The big reason is voltage. RGB strips are (typically) 12v, but rope light is (usually) 120v. The usual rule of thumb is that higher voltage can travel longer distances. For an example, your home is wired with 240v, but the distribution lines that power your neighborhood are about 10,000v, and the transmission lines that go across country are in the hundreds of kilo-volts. (Jeff Millard probably has better numbers.)

The other reason is the "wires" in the RGB strips are much smaller, and thus have higher resistance than the wires in rope lights. The tradeoff is that the smaller "wires" make them more flexible, lighter, and lest costly.

#27 hdracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:31 AM

Ah! You two gentlemen are correct!
Thanks for the clarifications!
Johnny S.

#28 imacericg

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:17 PM

Cracker wrote:

Troy Mann wrote:

hdracer wrote:

What about your end caps?
I have not gotten that for because I am only planning on planning on using each strip individually.

How you plan to attach the ends? You really don't want to connect strips together equaling more 16.3 feet. When you go longer then 16.3 feet you get a power drop and the second strip. Meaning the second strip will be dimmer than the first.




That is not completely true. I actually double up my strips on the same controller for my display and had zero signs of dimming on the second strip. However, I did not double up on every channel...about half. I used the LOR DC board, 30A DC power supply, 18AWG 4-wire for the power feeds and only about 20ft of wire between. I also just recently did the same and the run was like 50ft...I was a little worried, but showed no problems.

Just make sure you do your own testing and take power reading. Hate for you to set up and then it doesnt work.



Does "double up" mean you piggy back two RGB strips on one set of 3 channels on the controller (6 wires into 3 channels) or do you attach a second strip to the end of the first strip to make one really long strip?

#29 edvas69

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:37 PM

The size of the copper traces in the strip circuit can vary from manufacturer to manufactuer and in some cases you can run 2 strips connected together, but the general rule is to supply each strip with its own supply cable

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#30 dito

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:00 PM




Does "double up" mean you piggy back two RGB strips on one set of 3 channels on the controller (6 wires into 3 channels) or do you attach a second strip to the end of the first strip to make one really long strip?


Very good question! I'd like to find out the difference , if any.

#31 hdracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:22 PM

Hmm does this also mean that when you piggy back on those 2 channels the lights do the same on both strips?
Example: like sharing a channel between 2 mini trees.
If so would it be possible to do 4 strips on 2 dc board channels? On the same controller...?:?:?
Johnny S.

#32 imacericg

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:52 AM

I am about ready to buy my first RGB strip, can someone give me a gut check that this strip:
http://www.aliexpres...oating-RGB.html

Will work with LOR's CMB16D-QC controller?

#33 Troy Mann

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:42 AM

imacericg wrote:

I am about ready to buy my first RGB strip, can someone give me a gut check that this strip:
http://www.aliexpres...oating-RGB.html

Will work with LOR's CMB16D-QC controller?



Too much money in my option, they will work with the CMB16D.

This is the same type for half the price http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_5170wt_1110

#34 rgardner518

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:01 AM

Troy Mann wrote:

imacericg wrote:

I am about ready to buy my first RGB strip, can someone give me a gut check that this strip:
http://www.aliexpres...oating-RGB.html

Will work with LOR's CMB16D-QC controller?



Too much money in my option, they will work with the CMB16D.

This is the same type for half the price http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_5170wt_1110



Just be careful with both of those. They both have 60ct led's per meter.

Most people on here I read appear to like the 30ct leds better. Its really a matter of preference. There is a video foating around here that shows an comparison between the 60ct vs 30ct. To sum up the video, the 60ct from a distance almost looks a continuous light. Like a neon light would look like. Where the 30ct looks like separate bulbs with small spaces between them. Kind of like mini lights look like.

It's really all about the effect you going for.

I tired to look for the video, but was unable to find it. But maybe some else can chime in with the link, or video comparing the 60ct to the 30ct. I saw in on the forum about a week or two ago.

Personally before seeing the video. I was thinking 60ct per meter all of the way. Why not. The more the leds the better. But once saw the video, I was glad I did not dump the money into the 60's. I like the way the 30's look better!

Just adding this food for though.

lor_256_snow_dark.gif

12000_snow_dark_5.gif


#35 rgardner518

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:08 AM

I just found this video on YouTube. At the 2.56 mark is where they compare the 60ct to the 30ct.

The video shows the the 60ct would be perfect for wall washing! If that's what your trying to achieve.

http://www.youtube.c...pp0o&hl=en&fs=1

lor_256_snow_dark.gif

12000_snow_dark_5.gif