Timings Slightly Off

[jimswinder]

Hey...

Hopefully I can explain what I am seeing so you can understand.

I have several tracks in my sequence.

When I copy channels from Track 1 to Track 2, the beats don't line up, at least visually. The channels overlap the "lines" instead of fitting in between the lines.

Make sense?

I have tried to attach a picture to perhaps better explain to what I am seeing. You can see the red cells at the 6 and 8 second marks copied from Track 1 don't fit in the cells fully.





Attached files

[Frank A.]

Hi Jim

Guessing only

the actual timing in track 1 is different than in track 2

It looks to me that the copied values are on the tick mark

I.E. the copied value starts at 8.0 seconds in track 2

That leads me to believe there is an added timing somewhere in track 2

Looking at the timing grid on track 2 the timing marks are not aligned with

the tick marks

timing is skewed a little bit

You can skew left and right to correct and then redo the coping of values

This is only a guess looking at the pic

Frank A.

[jimswinder]

That leads me to believe there is an added timing somewhere in track 2

Looking at the timing grid on track 2 the timing marks are not aligned with
the tick marks

When I have both Track 1 and Track 2 on the screen (see attached pic) you can see they are not aligned. So how do added timings get added? I know I have not done it, not that I know of. All I did was copy channels from Track 1 to Track 2.

And is there any way to get them back aligned?

Do I really want to skew the audio track? If I correct it to Track 1, wouldn't that then make Track 2 misaligned?


Attached files

[-klb-]

It looks like you have different timing grids selected on the two tracks. If you have paste mode set to paste by time, and you copy from a grid with longer cells into one with shorter cells, your events will still line up with when they were (if the starting cell edge where pasted lines up) but they may not line up with the timing marks at the different intervals...

Click into the two different tracks, and look at the timing grid drop down near the top right, and see what it says on each...

[jimswinder]

-klb- wrote:

Click into the two different tracks, and look at the timing grid drop down near the top right, and see what it says on each...

Well...you were right...but I guess this goes back to what I thought the original problem was.

If Track 1 is created by the Beat Wizard at 2X, and Track 2 is created by the Beat Wizard at 4X, wouldn't one still expect the cell lines to line up? I know not every one would, but shouldn't 4 cells in Track 2 be the same size as 2 cells in Track 1?

[-klb-]

I personally would not trust that two passes with the beat wizard would result in the same exact results.. Too many variables come into play, between WMP, and the way it and LOR interact.

If you want a second timing grid with twice the number of cells, I would suggest that you duplicate the first timing grid, then in that grid, select all cells, and then subdivide all cells by 2..

[jimswinder]

-klb- wrote:

I personally would not trust that two passes with the beat wizard would result in the same exact results.. Too many variables come into play, between WMP, and the way it and LOR interact.

If you want a second timing grid with twice the number of cells, I would suggest that you duplicate the first timing grid, then in that grid, select all cells, and then subdivide all cells by 2..

Well...that is what I initially did, but if I subdivide the Beat Wizard 2x in Track One, it also subdivides the Beat Wizard 2X timing in ALL the tracks it is located...so then I lose the original timings of the Beat Wizard 2X timing...

Or am I doing something wrong?

So how does one create a new timing grid based on the one created by the Beat Wizard?

EDIT: Just re-read your post and noticed the word DUPLICATE...guess that is the answer, huh? lol

[Fabian]

Ok, you definitely appear to have two different timing in use. I took part of your second track and laid it over your first track. I know they line up because the audio waveforms track perfectly. Then I dropped some vertical markers in at .10 increments, matching your timeine's markers You can clearly see different timing marks on the two tracks.

I'm not a big beat wizard fan myself, but I'm curious how you could have different timings if you only have one in your dropdown box.

Any chance you can post your .LMS file somewhere?

Fabian



Attached files

[-klb-]

Use the duplicate to new timing grid function... Then you will have two separate grids.. Only subdivide one grid. Make sure you have distinctive names on the two, and that they are selected where you want them.

[-klb-]

If you click on the timings button to the left of the timing grid drop down list, duplicate to new freeform grid should be one of the options presented.

[jimswinder]

-klb- wrote:

If you click on the timings button to the left of the timing grid drop down list, duplicate to new freeform grid should be one of the options presented.

Thanks klb...

That worked great...

Now I get to spend the afternoon fixing everything I have done the last few nights!!! LOL

[Frank A.]

Hi

I finally got back on

I sure am glad someone can tell whats happening

instead of guessing

good call klb

Frank a.

[George Simmons]

jimswinder wrote:

If Track 1 is created by the Beat Wizard at 2X, and Track 2 is created by the Beat Wizard at 4X, wouldn't one still expect the cell lines to line up? I know not every one would, but shouldn't 4 cells in Track 2 be the same size as 2 cells in Track 1?

Jim,

I'm glad you got the problem solved.

But regarding the part of your post that I quoted, that's exactly the way the Beat Wizard has always worked for me. (I'm presuming you're using either a .wav file or a constant bit rate mp3 - if not, then all bets are off.) I use the Beat Wizard a LOT and have almost always seen it return the exact same timings from one track to the next. The exceptions have been when I've modified the audio file in between using the wizard or shortened the sequence in between uses. Once I saw it happen between software versions on a sequence I started and then went back to finish a number of months later.

You're right that selecting a timing grid and modifying it in a particular track will cause that same modification to appear in any/all other tracks that use that same grid. The only way I've found to get around this is by running the beat wizard again in the empty track I'm just beginning to work with, and then subdividing those timings to whatever I needed. But (unless anything in the above paragraph occurred) it has always returned the exact same timings for me each time I run the wizard.

[bob]

I personally would not trust that two passes with the beat wizard would result in the same exact results.. Too many variables come into play, between WMP, and the way it and LOR interact.

No, different passes with the Beat Wizard (using the exact same audio file and the exact same settings) should give the exact same results every time. The Beat Wizard's calculations do not depend upon Windows Media Player.

If Track 1 is created by the Beat Wizard at 2X, and Track 2 is created by the Beat Wizard at 4X, wouldn't one still expect the cell lines to line up? I know not every one would, but shouldn't 4 cells in Track 2 be the same size as 2 cells in Track 1?

If all other settings are left the same, then yes. But if, for example, you alter the time range that the Beat Wizard operates on, then not necessarily (not even within the overlapping time range).

Also, it's not clear to me if this is what you're doing, but just in case:

If you've duplicated the timing grid simply to use it with the other track, you could instead just select the original timing grid from the dropdown list (next to the "Timings" button). You can use any timing grid in any track (or tracks) at any time.

[jimswinder]

bob wrote:

;If all other settings are left the same, then yes.

Hey Bob...

Here is what I was doing (before klb pointed out the "Duplicate Track" feature to me).

I originally used the Beat Wizard @ 2X to get my original Timings for my Mini Trees Track.

But when I went to do my Arches (in another track) I found out really quick that the 2X timing would not work for the Arches, so ran the Beat Wizard again at 4X.

Thought everything was good, until I started Copying a few Channels from my Mini Trees Track into my Arches Track...that's when I noticed the cells did not line up.

I am sure there could be many reasons for them not to line up (number one being operator error), but I don't recall ever changing the timings from the original 2X created by the Beat Wizard.

The only thing I might have done was created the original 2X with the Beat Wizard using an MP3 file, and by the time I got around to creating the 4X Timing, I may have changed the audio file to a WAV file (remembering it is better to use for sync issues).

When I get a song from iTunes, I always convert them to an MP3 and a WAV file...use the WAV file to sequence and then change it out to the MP3 for the actual show.

Does the Beat Wizard look at MP3 and WAV files differently?

[bob]

No, it treats MP3 and WAV files in the same way, but it's possible that the conversion process from one to the other could have affected things in a way that is unnoticeable to the human ear but noticeable to the Beat Wizard.

[jimswinder]

bob wrote:

No, it treats MP3 and WAV files in the same way, but it's possible that the conversion process from one to the other could have affected things in a way that is unnoticeable to the human ear but noticeable to the Beat Wizard.

To satisfy my own curiosity, I will do a test tonight...

Thanks Bob..

[jimswinder]

jimswinder wrote:

bob wrote:

No, it treats MP3 and WAV files in the same way, but it's possible that the conversion process from one to the other could have affected things in a way that is unnoticeable to the human ear but noticeable to the Beat Wizard.

To satisfy my own curiosity, I will do a test tonight...

Thanks Bob..

Well...I could not re-create my problem.

I used the Beat Wizard to create a sequence using both a WAV and MP3 file.

Created the sequence using the 2X setting. In both, I used the Beat Wizard at 4X in a second track, and both lined up perfectly as Bob said they should.

I then switched the MP3 file with the WAV file and again used the Beat Wizard at 4X in a third track, and again they were exactly the same.

So I think I have proven that it was probably operator error...what a surprise!!!

Ok George...let me have it!! LOL