Power - how do you do it?

[Wynell Lewis]

I understand the concept of the power supply. But for you guys that have hundreds of channels - how do you do it? I upgraded my transformer this year, and I have a 200 amp box avaible for my light setup. But if I figure 30 amp breakers, per 1 LOR controller, I don't come close to what you have. I want to expand, but not sure how. Can you give a little advice.

Thanks.

[Randy]

Hi Wynell,

Unless you're using decorations that require a lot of energy, such as C7 or C9 incandescent lights or perhaps a lot of incandescent ropelight, etc., you may not need a 30 amp outlet for each receptacle.

Many of us start by building a spreadsheet of what the electrical load is going to be on each channel and then sum it up to see what each "side" of the controller will have to supply, and then ultimately sum the two sides up to see what each controller will draw.

I think what you'll discover, is that with a higher volume of channels, the load per controller doesn't reach the maximum, especially if you use LED lights.

I use just one power cord on all of my 16 channel controllers, and find that frequently the total load is pretty low on each controller. There are several cases where I'll have two or three controllers, and even occasionally 4 controllers plugged into one 20 amp outlet...So you may not need as many outlets as you think.

Our 2009 display, with 65,000 lights, drew 98 amps with all the lights on. That's with about 70% LED or so....

Does that help?

Thanks, Randy

[Dave Batzdorf]

It is confusing. I am not an electrician, but here is my take. A 30amp LOR. is the absolute max current draw - 15A per leg. If you monitor the current load for each of the legs - channle 1-8 and 9-16, you might find that you are only pulling less than 10 amps each. Therefore you can plug both legs in one outlet (circuit). The big key is to keep track of your total current draw. The number of circuits that you can install in the breaker box is dependent on the box it self. Get yourself a clamp-on ampmeter or the Kilo-watt units. This way you can balance your loads accordingly.

[PaulXmas]

Wynell Lewis wrote:

I understand the concept of the power supply. But for you guys that have hundreds of channels - how do you do it? I upgraded my transformer this year, and I have a 200 amp box avaible for my light setup. But if I figure 30 amp breakers, per 1 LOR controller, I don't come close to what you have. I want to expand, but not sure how. Can you give a little advice.

Thanks.

In 2009 I used 2 controllers (32 channels) on ONE 15 AMP circuit (I think I used about 7 AMPS when all the channels were on).
The rest of the yard pulled about 17 AMPS on 2 circuits
This year I am shooting for 96 channels (to control the rest of my yard) and I will use a total of 3 15 amp circuits drawing about 50-60%.
I use a lot of LEDs and minis.
Last summer I took out all my lights and wrote down the amps of each so I could get a good idea of the power draw. Then I knew my deer used X amps, the fence used X amps and the whole yard would use XX amps.
Gave me a good idea how many circuits I needed before hand.

I bought a meter that measures volts/amps/watts and checked each circuit just to be sure I was well under the 15 amps.

If you have an idea of how many of what kind of lights you have have I am sure someone here can tell you how much power you are going to need.

Hope this helps a little.

[Wynell Lewis]

Thanks for your input. I was thinking you used the maximum amperage on each controller. Now I understand what you are doing.

[Papa-LF]

Wynell,

What these guys are telling you is good information. When you start reaching out beyond the simple 2 or 3 controllers you need to spend the time writing down in a spread sheet your layout and the current draw so you can "Balance" out your display, power consumption wise. This last year - I finally had a real balanced system of my over 200 channels of display. I know this by two factors, the amount of power draw on each circuit, ( I used a recording device called a Kill-O-Watt to record 1 days power draw on each circuit so i could calculate/verify my power usage), and by the fact that in the past when i had circuits that pulled too much I had light flicker inside the house. I had 90 amps of power available for this years show, and never popped a breaker or flickered a light.

Said all that to say this - you can have the nicest display in the world, but if you pop breakers or they cause other problems, it takes all the fun out of having an awesome show. Plus there is always the safety end of the equation. Safety is number 1 priority. We work with 120 Volt 60 cycle power, one of the most dangerous combinations there is - and usually in conjunction with water or snow. Don't let that scare you away (unless you don't understand wiring setups) - but have a respect for it.

I recommend you find a buddy here in the forums that is knowledged - maybe even licensed - in electrical energy, and pick their brain back and forth for the next 6 months learning how to safely setup your display. Then get a big sack of candy canes and have a good time this next holiday season - because all those little kids will love you for what you do.

Semper Fi

Lowell

[evan.a]

here's a way to get more power and controlers connected.
you never want to max out any controler. pictures can give you some ideas

http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/forum82/21253.html

[eluttmann]

I decided from the start to go all LED ... Last year was my first display and I ran my entire display (10,000+ lights) all under 5 amps easy with all the lights on. I figure it was probably averaging below 3 amps while running. I'm doubling the controllers (64 more channels) and more than doubling the lights for next year.

I figured I about broke even the first year going LED (instead of having the cost of upgrading my electrical box) but it is definately costing me more to go LED starting this year. However, I didn't notice much of a change in my electric bill after last year. So every little bit helps. I also like how much more rugged the LED lights are - I'm sure I would have broken several strings of lights had I had been using incandescent lights had I treated them the same way when puting up and taking down the lights.

[lleibeck]

I am still debating the LED's, I know they save power and better for the planet but they are just not as bright, the display does not "pop". The colors are better defined.

I went ahead and did a power upgrade, from 200 amps to 400 amps. Cost $600 for the electrician to put another service panel outside. Did not have to touch the main breaker panel.

Where I live the power company must provide the power required by the home owner at no upgrade fee.

I'll keep an eye on the LED but it is hard to justify, $9.00 for 50 lights vs $3.00 for 100.

Our monthly Dec power bill only goes up about $60 to $70 for 35,000 lights.

L

[lleibeck]

I am still debating the LED's, I know they save power and better for the planet but they are just not as bright, the display does not "pop". The colors are better defined.

I went ahead and did a power upgrade, from 200 amps to 400 amps. Cost $600 for the electrician to put another service panel outside. Did not have to touch the main breaker panel.

Where I live the power company must provide the power required by the home owner at no upgrade fee.

I'll keep an eye on the LED but it is hard to justify, $9.00 for 50 lights vs $3.00 for 100.

Our monthly Dec power bill only goes up about $60 to $70 for 35,000 lights.

L

[George Simmons]

lleibeck wrote:

I am still debating the LED's, I know they save power and better for the planet but they are just not as bright, the display does not "pop".

You, sir, are a truly unique individual in that I don't believe I've ever heard anyone else say this. Forgive me, but I just couldn't stop myself from commenting.

Most people who don't like LED's cite precisely that very reason for disliking them - that they're TOO bright. (I've even heard that some guy in Jersey actually gets diarrhea from them, but that's a topic for another thread...) While I personally call the colors bold and and refreshing and revel in their glory, some say that LED colors can be harsh and glaring. To each his own, I guess...

But I've never heard them referred to as not being bright enough. Kinda makes me wonder what kind of rot-gut lights you've been exposed to. If you truly want your house to be seen from space (a most worthy aspiration in my opinion) LED's are definitely the way to go! You owe it to yourself to get your hands on some full-wave LED's and see if maybe they'll change your mind.

[lleibeck]

I am willing to try the full wave.

I even had one visitor last year ask why the house lights were not as bright as the others, even suggested doubling them up. They recalled what the house looked like last year.

Keep in mind I went from C9 incandescent to "C9" style LED

[-klb-]

If you used strings of LED C9 bulbs, that is your issue right there. The dimmable minleon retrofit bulbs are at least as bright as incandescents. I have them around the windows of the house, and love them.

[evan.a]

Jeff Millard wrote:

George Simmons wrote:

(I've even heard that some guy in Jersey actually gets diarrhea from them, but that's a topic for another thread...)

Oh! So now I've regressed beyond having a name. I'm just "some guy in Jersey?!?" So I get diarrhea from time to time... It's not strange to you that it tends to always occur when I'm looking at LED lights screwing up someone's formerly beautiful Christmas display?!?

Cheeeze Whiiiz...

Jeff:cool:

Sorry, I moved out of Jersey. leds are brighter.

[eldoradoboy]

I like LED's for modern parts of my display... a lot of technology will be added for my 2010 display and those parts will be LED...

but i like the wrmth of incandescents for when i want my display to take on that warm glow of christmas past.. say for my silver bells.. with ceramic C-9's wrapped in green garland around the house.. or C-9's in the shrubs and around the garage door.. that look of christmas-as-a-child..

but for modern parts of a display LED strands give a lot of POP... mega trees in LED, cosmic color ribbon color changing wreaths.. LED based "EQ" displays, color changing pattern "grids" all MUCH better in LED rather than incandescent.. gives a lot of pizazz..

I also think there are a lot of neat things you can do with sequencing of LED's too.. the shimmer effects look a lot more pronounced on LED.... LED's are on now and off now.. no persistance or filament warm up time...

definately use full wave dimmable with the LOR.. and put snubbers on the channels so they dim smoothly..
and you can use much less power.. which for me is good because I was maxxing out at close to 80 amps for my 09 display.. I cant run any more than that comfortably on my house that has 150 amp service, 3 Heat pumps and electric dryer.. too close for comofrt in my book.... so I figure i will drop down to about 50 amps with all the LED's im adding / switching out for 2010....
-Christopher

[TGabriel]

LEDs that the way you do it.

[Donny M. Carter]

THIS IS WHAT I HAVE. EACH SIDE OF THE RECEPTACLE HAS ITS OWN BREAKER. I CAN RUN 16 CONTROLLERS FOR 256 CHANNELS ON THIS SET UP.

Attached files

[Donny M. Carter]

ANOTHER PIC OF MY SET-UP. HOPE YALL LIKE..

Attached files

[jbzeus]

Donny, so you will be only running at 15 amps on each of the 16 controllers, correct?

[George Simmons]

lleibeck wrote:

Keep in mind I went from C9 incandescent to "C9" style LED

Now I get it. My bad. I didn't even think of C9's. These days it seems like my brain only thihnks of minis and c6. Wow - you're gonna be in for a pleasant surprise then - because for everything else (except C7/C9) LED's are waaaaay brighter. Even though Jeff M has been around a few too many electromagnetic fields to see colors the way the rest of us see them, I think even HE would agree LED's are brighter and definitely the best way to be seen from orbit.