received LOR for Christmas - how to convert from static?

[Jim Saul]

Hi, quick intro - I'm Jim from Minnesota. I've been doing static displays for Christmas for about 15 years. in 2001 I moved from New York to Minnesota, and gave about 150 blow molds to friends so they could keep up the display, since then I have been re-building every year with the after Christmas sales. Currently I are up to about 120 illuminated items.



I just received 2 of the CBT16pc’s, the FM transmitter, and the software in for Christmas.



Currently the static display is about 35 amp (almost all blow molds). Most of that is CFL lamps that I know I cannot flash. What I was planning to do was to have all of the static display use 4-5 channels, and keep it on for 5 minutes or so while announcements play, then turn it off and the light show go, then have the static come back on after the song. This way I can use the same two 20 amp circuits that are all ready in place.

Now that the units have arrived, I have looked at them and realize that each unit can only have a maximum or two 8 amp circuits going at one time.

I am wondering if anyone knows of something that would allow me to use one or two channels to control 40 amps from 2 breakers, instead of needing to purchase another 16 channel controller and dedicate 6 channels to the static display?

Also any other advice for a newbie is greatly appreciated. I am going to work on a small mega-tree and an arch or two. beyond that, I have little idea what I am doing, but I am looking forward to figuring it out.

[George Simmons]

Welcome Jim. I can't help you much with your question, but I know there are a number of DIY experts here who can, and it won't take long for someone to chime in. I just wanted to say welcome and Happy New Year.

[PaulXmas]

Relays will let you past the 8 amp limit.

I have about 18 amps running my lawn decorations that go off and on via one channel on the LOR controller.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Xmas light animation.

[Max-Paul]

Hi Jim,

First maybe I read your post wrong. That is an 8 amp per channel limit. And then you have a left and right side or bank that is good for 15 amp limit. So Channels 1-8 as a sum can not have any more than 15 amps. And Channels 9 - 16 summed can not be above 15 amps.

Also some bad news, LOR does not play well with CFLs. You will be better off loosing those CFLs. They produce so much electrical noise that the controllers will either not get commands or will start doing their own thing without being commanded.

Thats about it for now. Gee we know who was the very good boy at home. Lots of nice toys for sure..


Edit, reading your post again. Got what you are saying. So, are you familiar with Solid state relays? Or some good contactors? You want one that has a 120VAC coil. Contactors have just one draw back, the contacts like to wear out. But also there is no problem with what kind of load like a motor. Solid state relays rarely fail, but some of them are not motor friendly.

[Jim Saul]

Thanks for the ideas.

how does something like this sound?

(2) SSRs http://cgi.ebay.com/New-in-Box-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-24-480V-AC-25A_W0QQitemZ390135986533QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5eab965
in a plastic enclosure with a door bell transformer.

Another question if i may - for the audio, how long can I run the cable from the computer to the FM transmitter?with my current setup I am guessing it will be about 120 - 150 feet depending on where and how I get it out of my house. I know I can run the cat 5 up to 4000 for the controller so that is not an issue.

[kzaas]

Hi Jim,

First off welcome to LOR, once your in, its an addiction, you start sequencing your songs, setting up your lights , forgetting your your kids names , your wifes leaves you(My wife says she's a Christmas light widow this time of year), but when you see the faces on the kids looking at your show its all worth it. But seriously this is my third year with LOR.

I have 112 channels of LOR and a 96 channel Measurement Computing DIO board, but I only use 36 channels of the DIO board this year. I am trying to phase out the DIO board and SSR's mainly because of the limitation of not being able to fade those channels. So that might be something you might want to consider when you start building up your show. I too have a large number of blowmolds and wire frames and I control them with a combination of LOR and DIO board, but like I said I am slowly changing to stricktly LOR control.

That was a good price for those SSR's how were you planning to control them?
BTW I'm at about 160 amps this year:shock:

Attached files

[Max-Paul]

Hi Jim,

Again if me, I would be shooting for an SSR that takes 120V for the input. I am just repeating what I believe I hear from others. But LOR was made for lights, unless you get the Servo Dog or maybe one of the other boards. So, motors or Transformers are not really supported through a Triac. But if you do put anything that has a coil of wire, such as motors or relay coils. I highly suggest a Tranist suppressor such as a MOV.
Not trying to be rude, just an old saying that needs to be said at this point to make a point. K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid, something I try to remember to say to myself from time to time. Meaning, dont use a step down transformer if you can find a SSR or simple relay that has an input of 120vac.

Ok, I am not a big fan of audio, so I will just say that it sounds to be a long run. And the gauge of the wire will be a big factor. I have heard some guys talking about some kind of balum or matching transformers. Lets see if one of the audio guys drop in to fill in or correct what I was just saying.

[-klb-]

As for the long audio haul, these baluns will take the audio, and convert it from ground referenced unbalanced signal to a balanced signal that can make use of the noise resistance of cat 5 cable.

http://www.markertek.com/CATV-Headend-Interface/CAT-5-Transmission-Systems/Audio-Over-CAT5-Systems/MuxLab-Inc/500030.xhtml
http://www.markertek.com/CATV-Headend-Interface/CAT-5-Transmission-Systems/Audio-Over-CAT5-Systems/MuxLab-Inc/500027.xhtml

The links are to one with a single 1/8th inch stereo plug, which can go to the PC, and the other has RCA jacks that go to the FM transmitter. If your layout works better for it, you could even use one of the RCA ones at each end. A few hundred feet should not be an issue using these.

As for the CFL's, you will want to keep those on a completely separate circuit. The idea of a solid state relay is good. You might consider a LOR DC card, the CMB16D to control the SSR's. Generally, where the DC power to the lights is 12V or higher, the CMB16D will power itself from the lighting power supply. Where it is less than 12V, you can bring in a separate 12V supply to the barrel connector to run the card, and use lower voltages like 5V to power the SSR's.. Or the DIO32 card should also be able to drive 5V SSR's, and have twice as many channels available.

[Jim Saul]

Thanks everyone!

OK here is what I am thinking, and please feel free to tell me where I am wrong

I currently have 2 20 amp dedicated circuits, which in the past past has been used 100% for the display, with a shared 15 amp going for mini / led lights.


1) I get (2) SSR relays, I use a 24 volt doorbell transformer that is powered from one channel of the LOR to energize them. The relays are connect the (2) 20 amp circuits and to the static display. This way, when LOR powers up the channel the relays kick and the 40 amps are lighting up the blow molds with the cfls.

2) The 2 lor controllers are also both plugged into the same (2) 20 amp circuits. (or possibly 1/2 to the 15) When the lor show is going to start, it kills the power to the relays, cfls on and 40 amps ready to use for the show.

Will this work or will the noise from the cfls mess up the controllers? If have to, I can probably add more circuits, but my second breaker box is full, and it means putting another 1.5" conduit through brick, so I would prefer not to

KLB - thanks those baluns seem to be the way to go! :cool:

[-klb-]

Operational CFL's have two bad effects. First, if they are on channels of the controller, or often just the same supply circuit, the controller may become on/off, instead of dimming, where any intensity, or ramp turns into 100% on.

Second, if the data cables for the show run anywhere close to the power cords supplying CFL's, the RS485 signal can get substantially corrupted, resulting in the wrong controller, or wrong channel, or no channel responding to various commands. I've experienced several of these effects in a Halloween show, even after putting all of the CFL blacklights on a dedicated controller. That is what pushed me to switch to LED blacklights this year.

But, if you turn off all of the CFL lighting while the LOR portion is running, you could then share the circuit, as the CFL bulbs only create the electrical problems when they are on.

You would probably be well advised to set up your SSR's and transformer on one channel, with some other conventional lighting on other channels, to verify if the transformer itself will cause any issues for your controller's ability to dim the other channels. But again, if you are turning the transformer off when the show runs, to turn off the CFL bulbs, it is not likely to be an issue.

[Jim Saul]

Just as an update to this thread, here is what I have done.
1) I added 2 more 20 amp circuits for Christmas.
2) I made an optical relay box for (2) 20 amp circuit controlled by a 12v transformer from an old router.

Now, what I can do is, use 1 channel from LOR to turn on and off the all of the CFLs, They are on a separate power source from the controllers, and are off for the LOR show.
my plan is to have the CFLs and static display on in between LOR shows.
for the inflatables, I am probably going to make another relay box and use another channel that just turns them on at the beginning of the first show and off at the end of the evening.

For the audio, my FM transmitter had a hum whenever it was not running on batteries, so it is back at LOR now. once the hum is gone, I will figure out where to put it, and what I can do.
I did order a 25 foot headphone extension cord for $3, I will test it when they both come in.

I have also moved the dedicated computer to the mechanical room where the breakers are, and installed a ¾” conduit going outside to get the cat 5 and audio outside.

[jjdurrant]

Nice!

[George Simmons]

Jim Saul wrote:

...and installed a ¾” conduit going outside to get the cat 5 and audio outside.

Aren't you concerned that the audio will sound tinny after being forced through such a small diameter conduit?

[huskernut]

George Simmons wrote

Aren't you concerned that the audio will sound tinny after being forced through such a small diameter conduit?

It wouldnt if you just jammed a 6 inch funnel into the end of it.