pdowns Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Arghh! Last year I bought a Betabrite Prism LED message sign and loved the way it looked for a "Tune to" sign. But within 2 hours it died. The power supply was no longer working. So I exchanged the power supply for a new one. Within an hour it died again and I messed with it so much I voided any warranty. I had run out of time so I used a really lousy "Tune to" sign last year.Yesterday I plugged in my brand new Betabrite Prism. It lasted 2 hours. "He's dead Jim." Same symptom, no output from the power supply.-----What's going on here? I have this by itself on a LOR channel (last year also). Is there so much electrical noise on my LOR channels that this thing is being destroyed? Or is it a bad product? Is there a way to protect it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hamilton Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Uh.... not sure what is happening. I bought mine 3 years ago and still working fine. I keep it on day and night during the season. In day time it displays a couple of messages about show times and other things. At night during the show, I have it showing the song titles and they are playing (using LOR to run DOS batch file at beginning of each song).Oh wait a minute.... It just occurred to me that you said you have it on an LOR channel! I think that is a bad idea to put any electronic device on an LOR channel. It doesn't produce a true AC sine wave you know! It's probably not noise, but the shape of the AC wave. Have you ever looked at an LOR channel output on an O'scope?I used to plug mine into an X10 device a couple years ago so it would only be on at night, but for the last couple of years, I just leave it on all the time for advertisement.I'd re-think that approach of having it on an LOR channel. I'll bet that someone more familiar with the LOR electronics can comment better on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Fischer Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I'm on at least the third year with that sign as well, maybe 4th... I only run it during the show (I used to run it 24/7 in my office off-season as a clock, but haven't lately). If it's just the power supply you should be able to pick up something else...You're not trying to run this off of an LOR channel are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hamilton Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Tim Fischer wrote: You're not trying to run this off of an LOR channel are you?Yes Tim, I think he has it running off an LOR channel by reading his post.That can't be good for an electronic device like the Beta-Brite which has little to no regulation of the AC power line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdowns Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 OK - Just cannibalized an old PC power supply (took a sec to figure out how to get it to turn on) and have my original Betabrite running fine. I'll try again tonight without putting it on a LOR channel.It's interesting to me is that it is the Betabrie power supply that dies, not the LED message sign itself.I want the LOR show to control everything and that was my original motivation for putting the sign directly on a channel. I'll have to try another approach for the automation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hamilton Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 pdowns wrote: OK - Just cannibalized an old PC power supply (took a sec to figure out how to get it to turn on) and have my original Betabrite running fine. I'll try again tonight without putting it on a LOR channel.It's interesting to me is that it is the Betabrie power supply that dies, not the LED message sign itself.I want the LOR show to control everything and that was my original motivation for putting the sign directly on a channel. I'll have to try another approach for the automation.Great! Glad to see you have it going. I'll put big money on the fact that it failed by being on an LOR channel. I am also a bit surprised that it was the transformer that died rather than the sign. I think those BetaBrite AC adapters are just simple step-down transformers and not the newer type of "switchers" that are now required for sale in most states. Maybe the fast acting fuse inside the brick has blown as a reesult of being on an LOR channel.What I would be surprised about is if the AC adapter is a switching type of supply and failed. I haven't seen one work well on an LOR channel, but at least they don't typically fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Fischer Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Richard Hamilton wrote:Tim Fischer wrote: You're not trying to run this off of an LOR channel are you?Yes Tim, I think he has it running off an LOR channel by reading his post.That can't be good for an electronic device like the Beta-Brite which has little to no regulation of the AC power line.Somehow I missed the last part of the original post (I think I saw the dashes and assumed that was a signature...) LOR does't provide "normal" power even at 100% on. If you really want to control this from an LOR channel, you should use a relay. Or just use X-10, which is what I do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdowns Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 I had the Betabrite power supply apart last year. It is not a switching power supply. It is a simple full wave rectifier (and capacitor) after a step down transformer.There is a non-replaceable fuse inside the power supply that fails. Simple to remove that! And then another part failed. Replacement Betabrite branded power supplies cost over $60. I like my PC power supply solution so much I'm now going to try using another one to power my EDM transmitter and see if I can remove the hum from the carrier.I went to Home Depot and to Radio Shack and they don't carry x10 hardware. That stuff must be getting antiquated. And my laptop has no serial port (just a modem) and the usb ports are in use for LOR and RDS. I can work this out, just not tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Puryear Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 you can always use a solid state relay to control the sign. I have been using RIB brand relays for years with LOR without any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffl Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Good to find this post. I have been using my BetaBrite Prism hooked up to a LOR channel for 3 years and have not had an issue. I think I'll be investigating a new solution next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 As others pointed out, the waveform is not even close to a sine wave on a LOR channel.I would agree with Donald, have the LOR key a relay (either solid state or real mechanical relay), and have the relay power the sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LORisAwesome Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 pdowns wrote: I had the Betabrite power supply apart last year. It is not a switching power supply. It is a simple full wave rectifier (and capacitor) after a step down transformer.There is a non-replaceable fuse inside the power supply that fails. Simple to remove that! And then another part failed. Replacement Betabrite branded power supplies cost over $60. I like my PC power supply solution so much I'm now going to try using another one to power my EDM transmitter and see if I can remove the hum from the carrier.I went to Home Depot and to Radio Shack and they don't carry x10 hardware. That stuff must be getting antiquated. And my laptop has no serial port (just a modem) and the usb ports are in use for LOR and RDS. I can work this out, just not tonight.You can still get some X-10 stuff at Amazon.com. I gave up on it when one of my timers died and I couldn't get a replacement.I've switched all my stuff over to Insteon, which is more flexible and more reliable than X-10. Unfortunately, you can't control Insteon with LOR. I just use it to turn on/off some static stuff, so it is not a problem for me.Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizzr Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Glad to find a forum discussing LED signs. I'm looking for some beta testers for an LED sign program I'm developing that works in conjunction with LOR.The only sign I have access to is my own, which is a crummy little sign from an Italian company you've probably never heard of. I got a pair of them off eBay really cheap, and being a tinkerer and software engineer, I got them to work by writing a little program to translate a line of text from the command line to codes compatible with the sign, and sending them out via serial. But I wanted more out of my sign than was practical with the LOR Windows command interface, so I've vastly improved the program. I'm looking for savvy testers who I don't have to hand-hold, who can work with me to test this on various models of sign.Reply here, or contact me at geeklights@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizzr Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 By the way, I don't have all the fancy brag graphics and all that set up here, but my show, the Geek Lights on the Corner, was 50,000+ lights, and 208 LOR channels for the 2011-2012 season. We're hoping to top 75,000 lights and 264 channels this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim6918 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Why is it such a secret as to how much these signs cost? I have been through both the Betabrite and Adaptive web sites and can't find a price anyplace.Must be pretty darn expensive if you have to fill out a contact form and wait for a salesperson to call.I like the idea of using a sign during the day to advertise show times, and possibily during the show to tell people to turn off their headlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdowns Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 It shouldn't be hard to find a seller and a price. I just now found them on eBay ($275), U.S. Lighting products ($269) http://www.uslightingproducts.com/Programmable_LED_BetaBrite_Prism.html, Amazon ($375), etc.I can't remember what I paid for mine but it was less than these amounts, but over $200.I like the signs a lot. I do wish they were weather proof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizzr Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What do you do to yours (if anything) to use them outside? Also, did you see my post above, looking for beta testers?Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim6918 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 pdowns wrote:It shouldn't be hard to find a seller and a price. I just now found them on eBay ($275), U.S. Lighting products ($269) http://www.uslightingproducts.com/Programmable_LED_BetaBrite_Prism.html, Amazon ($375), etc.I can't remember what I paid for mine but it was less than these amounts, but over $200.I like the signs a lot. I do wish they were weather proof!Your US Lighting Products link doesn't work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whizzr Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Remove the comma at the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdowns Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 I have only used them indoors. But what I find is that people don't notice them as reliably as I would like. Invariably some cars don't know about the FM station.On my "list" is to build a clear plastic enclosure and put a sign on top of my mailbox next to the street. That's fine for a static sign display like "tune to" but I'd also like to have an outdoor sign that dynamically updates song information. That's a wiring opportunity I haven't tackled yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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