Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Can The triacs on the LOR board trigger a 120 volt relay without any problems? Is it the same as triggering a light or is it different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Not recomended to run devices like tranformers and coils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 A voltage spike may accur whenever a relay coil is de-energized. This is prevented by placeing a suppression diode in parrallel with the coil. Is this the reason you say its not recommended? Maybe a suppression diode will fix our problem. Just a thought. Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 I'm going to use a 25 Amp capacity relay this 2006 season. I wired the relay to be "ON" by default so as not to cause it to heat up unnecessarily from the coil. So during my long(er) static display, the motif current is on while the coil is off. During the shorter LOR shows, the relay will be on, to turn the power to the motifs off. The only catch I can see is that the LOR channel running the relay must be set to 0% OR 100% power, nothing in between as the relay is mechanical.I'm using the relay for the parts of my static (non-LOR) display for the following reasons: motifs with transformers, small motors, high Amps (8+Amps), electronic controllers and motifs that cannot be broken into color groups for sequencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 ggregzim wrote: I wired the relay to be "ON" by default I'm assuming you mean the relay is de-energized and your wired to the NC or Normally Closed contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 You are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 jeff wrote: Can The triacs on the LOR board trigger a 120 volt relay without any problems? Is it the same as triggering a light or is it different?Jeff, no guarantees but if you try it put a resistive load in parallel wit the relay. Something like a light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 LightORama wrote: ...if you try it put a resistive load in parallel wit the relay. Something like a light.I just tried this with a Westinghouse SG relay. I did as Dan suggested and placed a lightbulb (40watt) across the relay coil as a resistive load. I used the SG becaue they are usually wired energized, so coil heat-up isn't an issue. It worked fine for me.jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 jeff wrote: A voltage spike may accur whenever a relay coil is de-energized. This is prevented by placeing a suppression diode in parrallel with the coil. Is this the reason you say its not recommended? Maybe a suppression diode will fix our problem. Just a thought. Any comments?I was thinking of DC circuitry. We're dealing with AC so maybe what I said doesnt even make sense. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 I have 16 I'm planning on ganging up to each channel (I set up a few banks that can be switched off if I decide I need fades and such on some channels).this should work and at the very least will not damage your LOR.My first thoughts on this were that the only problem would be at turn ON of the relay since turn OFF's always happen at zero cross, however, Since current will lag/lead? the voltage across the coil, you will get a big voltage spike on the relay during turn off since current will still be flowing even though voltage on the triac (LOR) is zero at turn off. Instead of a light bulb maybe a resistor would be better.My relays are about 4K resistance so the current through there is like 30ma.I think maybe a 1K resistor would still let the relay work and give the coil a place to put the voltage during turn off.Has anyone done this. So we need somthing more complicated (a "snubber")?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 Several years ago when I stripped down 20 Stratus Main frame computers, one of the things I harvested and saved was many of these - what are called Spark Quenchers Part Number XEB0102, please see the attached link http://www.okaya.com/images/noise/1204.pdf (and I have a bag full of these), I think these just may work for exactly what you have in mind. I have put one of these on the input of each of my LOR controllers (but until now I had not considered putting one on the output channel of an LOR). I also put one on the input to my power center for my home theater.Dan, I would be willing to send you one (or more) for testing, if you would be interested and for any one else, I will send you one, if you paid for shipping. Sometimes, I am just to nice.Bill Attached files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 These might work. Those look like MOV's and are used for lightning protection. In the link below they also talk about protection from artificial surges from motors and relays. Looks like 400v is as low as they get. I think an AC relay could tolerate that unitl the MOV kicks in.http://www.okaya.com/HP3/image/GDT%20presentation.pdfWhat does everyont think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 kb9nvh wrote: These might work. Those look like MOV's and are used for lightning protection. In the link below they also talk about protection from artificial surges from motors and relays. Looks like 400v is as low as they get. I think an AC relay could tolerate that unitl the MOV kicks in.http://www.okaya.com/HP3/image/GDT%20presentation.pdfWhat does everyont think?Actually the "Snubbers" as they are most often called aren't to protect the relays, they are to protect the electronics from the relays or the transient spikes created by the relays' collapsing magnetic field once it's turned off. These high voltage spikes created by inductive loads can destroy solid state devices. So to guard against this snubber circuit's or snubber devices are installed when inductive loads are controlled by triacs and other electronic components Here is a link specifically showing the snubber components (resistor and capacitor and their values) on a lighting board designed to control resistive lighting or inductive loads.http://www.aldor.net/10A%20Data%20Sheet%20w%20troubleshooting.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 LOR says that they use snubberless triacs so there is no danger of damaging thier electronics. I specifically asked this question to them and they said they were more worried about what you are trying to contol and that their product would not be damaged.So, if thats true then I dont think we have to worry too much about relays (coils). Motors might not like partially on AC though and the squarewaves.I guess the key here is the snubberless triacs they use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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