MikeH Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanta Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Am I getting this grief because I dared to point out that Dan said the new visualizer would be out in '10 and there is still no release date for '11 yet? Good grief. I guess I needed a "winky". All I tried to do was help explain what scrubbing is and why I thought it to be more user friendly and got lambasted for my effort. Yeah, that's what I call some pretty nasty tenor. And I'm not a troll, I have no interest in stirring up trouble, I just want to learn what I can so I don't make an expensive (to me) mistake in buying a sequencer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Simmons Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Shanta wrote: Wow, thanks for the warm welcome! I just feel all cozy and warm here!First, I never claimed to be any kind of authority on sequencing software, be it LOR or LSP, and my comments hardly constitute a review... more like first impressions. I'm brand new to the whole arena and trying to decide for myself which to go with. I am just now leaving the Mr Christmas behind and hoping to buy my first controller in the next month or so. I have some experience in audio and video editing and simply implied that I found the workflow of LSP translates better to workflows I'm accustomed to. I don't understand why this comes across like an attack on you or your choice of software. I don't feel attacked in any way. You inferred certain conclusions regarding the LOR sequencing software which are, in fact, incorrect. I have been devouring the boards here, at PlanetChristmas, and at LSP trying to learn all I can. Watching every YouTube video. Downloading sequences by the masters and studying them. And yes, trying the demos for BOTH LOR and LSP. Maybe I have just seen videos of bad editors working in LOR, but it seems to me from watching them that there is a lot of guess-work involved in placing events. That evidence, taken alone, might lead me to question the sequencing prowess of that individual. I speak for no one else, but I cannot recall when, if ever, I've guessed when in time I placed an event. I may have guessed how the event might actually look in the yard, but not when it would occur. So I cannot relate with that particular fear. It seems, based on my limited experience, that being able to grab the edge of a column and drag it to where you HEAR the audio cue is a lot easier than trying to listen to a 10 second clip and spot where on the time line to place an event once the playback is done. Agreed. What makes you believe that moving a timing mark IS any more difficult than grabbing the edge of a column and dragging it? But I have only scratched the surface of LOR, I'm sure. For instance I did not know that you can divide a cell, so thanks, I'll seek out how to do that In the sequence editor: EDIT > TIMINGS (you'll note that in my previous post I said that "as far as I could tell" LOR locks you into a predetermined resolution... No, it doesn't. Go to: EDIT > TIMINGS > SWITCH TIMING GRID hardly sounds authoritative to me). And yes, I knew that you could set the resolution as fine as 1/100th of a second but it seems that all the best editors use 1/10 or 1/20, What do you define as "all the best editors"? MY definition of "best" begins with first of all, the lights matching up with the music. Is this something we can agree on? I've been told that I'm a pretty good "editor" and I've used a fixed timing grid on exactly one song in three years' time. and generally their beat tracks will show a beat every 8 cells for several beats and then there will be 9 cells for one because the granularity was too coarse to match up precisely. With LSP, there is no time-based grid but rather timing marks placed exactly wherever the beat is, see: TOOLS > BEAT WIZARD or wherever the user wants them with no regard if they align with the nearest 1/10, 1/20 or 1/100 of a second. LOR gives you the choice of either, any or all the above, singly or combined in almost any manner within the same sequence. I'm sure that for the viewer of the show this is a distinction without a difference, but it makes a difference to how the editing is approached. I'm not even going to say that one is better than the other, just that the LSP model makes more sense to me (for now). To each his own. I'm certain that both companies want you to buy their software, that both would tell you theirs is the best choice, and that both would be, to some degree, correct. From what I've seen, both LOR and LSP have users who are quite adept and also users who aren't. I believe the difference largely is, regardless of brand, how much the user has taken upon themself to learn about the software he or she is using. Again, how you can find this type of an observation to be a personal assault baffles me. As stated previously, I perceived no personal assault. If there were some good videos out there about how to approach sequencing with LOR I wouldn't feel so lost. Maybe there are and I just haven't found them. I don't know about videos for I never paid them all that much mind. I'm sure there's good ones to be found. I'm more the self-taught type and I can tell you there's a lot of help files around the LOR website and in the software. They, along with all the various menu commands, are just waiting to show newbies whatall the software can do. That is one thing the guys at LSP seem to have done really well with, producing videos that demonstrate the features of their software. At this point, I remain (truly) undecided. But if the tenor of your reply The tenor of my reply was based on how I perceived your post. I'm sorry it made you upset. Or maybe I'm not, I don't know... I just got finished with my best season ever using this software that you know so little about to entertain thousands of people to their core. It offended me that you were spouting ignorant falsehoods. Before incorrectly complaining what the software CAN'T do, I think that maybe you should first learn what it CAN do. is any indication of the brand of 'help' I might receive around here, perhaps I will reserve my questions and observations for PlanetChristmas. Again, I speak for only me. But if that's the ceiling you wish to impose upon yourself, well...Minnesota Ear Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMeBobO Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Welcome Shanta. I appreciate your question. Sorry if you feel jumped on. There was way to much there for me to follow it all.The LOR software does not limit you to a fixed grid. You can add/split, marks anywhere you wish, save them off somewhere and make a new one and then go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 If all you are seeing is 1/10th, and 1/20th of a second timings, you are not seeing results of people using the beat wizard, tapper, or other methods of setting their own timing grid. As long as you are not using a fixed timing grid, or have your grid locked, you can always drag and drop timing events.I used to do what was described, with some number of cells per measure, and the occasional make up cell, but that was years ago, or a sequence I have not yet managed to upgrade, but still use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanta Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks for the help on timings. Anyway, I'm anxiously looking forward to a revamped visualizer as that would go a long way toward erasing some of the appeal of LSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shfr26 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 http://lightorama.mywowbb.com/forum81/25276-7.htmlCheck out this thread from Dan, should answer your question sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightORamaDan Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Shanta wrote: Am I getting this grief because I dared to point out that Dan said the new visualizer would be out in '10 and there is still no release date for '11 yet? Good grief. I guess I needed a "winky". All I tried to do was help explain what scrubbing is and why I thought it to be more user friendly and got lambasted for my effort. Yeah, that's what I call some pretty nasty tenor. And I'm not a troll, I have no interest in stirring up trouble, I just want to learn what I can so I don't make an expensive (to me) mistake in buying a sequencer.We will have the new visualizer this year. It has been a while coming but it is looking pretty nice now.No I do not have a release date yet and will not announce one until we are sure but you can be guaranteed it will be this year and certainly in the first half of the year.I agree 100% that we are lacking in good tutorials for the software. That will be corrected this year as well.Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmilkie Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Shanta:Welcome,This is probably a "duh" question, but what is LSP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBullard Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 wmilkie wrote: Shanta:Welcome,This is probably a "duh" question, but what is LSP?LSP stands for Light Show Pro, which is a sequencing software written by another companyEDIT: I have the full paid version of LSP and HATE it. As mentioned in an earlier post, it does not appear to be stable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanta Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Jeff Millard wrote:Then we won't be burdened with having to explain simple sequencing techniques to them... Good for the entire community...For the record, the videos I was getting my bad editing advice from, where it seems that you are locked to a grid and where events are placed by guess-work, they are the tutorial videos provided by LOR. So maybe you should complain to them about failing to demonstrate the capabilities of the software and how to go about editing. The author of that video establishes a set grid, taps out a beat track which is mapped to the grid (not as a separate timing) and never shows that other timings are possible, or that the duration of any cell can be shortened, lengthened, split or merged.I know Dan said better videos are coming, and they will be most welcome by us newbies trying to self-train on this software, but until then maybe the troll hunters can keep their venom to themselves and let the new guys ask their banal questions. Or maybe reply helpfully when a perceived lack is actually a misperception rather than attacking. Jeff, I'm sure the LOR folks are delighted by your concerted efforts to drive away prospective customers... feel free to ignore my future posts, I certainly intend to ignore yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightORamaDan Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Shanta wrote: Jeff Millard wrote:Then we won't be burdened with having to explain simple sequencing techniques to them... Good for the entire community...For the record, the videos I was getting my bad editing advice from, where it seems that you are locked to a grid and where events are placed by guess-work, they are the tutorial videos provided by LOR. So maybe you should complain to them about failing to demonstrate the capabilities of the software and how to go about editing. The author of that video establishes a set grid, taps out a beat track which is mapped to the grid (not as a separate timing) and never shows that other timings are possible, or that the duration of any cell can be shortened, lengthened, split or merged.I know Dan said better videos are coming, and they will be most welcome by us newbies trying to self-train on this software, but until then maybe the troll hunters can keep their venom to themselves and let the new guys ask their banal questions. Or maybe reply helpfully when a perceived lack is actually a misperception rather than attacking. Jeff, I'm sure the LOR folks are delighted by your concerted efforts to drive away prospective customers... feel free to ignore my future posts, I certainly intend to ignore yours.As mentioned we will be providing a series of tutorials to help people learn the software. The existing tutorials are very old and show only the features of a very early version of the software.The new S2 software has MANY new features and we need to have the training available to help people understand how to use those features.The tutorials will be very helpful for the newbies so they can get up to speed and understand the basics. However not everyone will understand and some folks will still be here asking simple questions which are welcome.Lets have some peace now...Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwertz Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ItsMeBobO wrote: Also need a hover over indicator to say which channel will light each cell. This could be in the left control panel instead of hovering overlaying the animation.I think the hover method of identifying channels would be a great addition. While we're wishing, it would be really nice if you could then control that channel for the purposes of verifying your setup (a simple on off would be sufficient).Here's my hacked up example of what I'm talking about. I displayed the channel info at the bottom of the form. But I'm sure the wizards at LOR could come up with something fancier:http://www.wertzweb.com/lights/files/LightORamaFeatureRequest-ControlLightsFromAnimationWindow2.wmvBTW, it sure would be nice to have an ActiveX control to tie this code to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Amedee Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Don't meen to highjack post yet been on plenty forums..woodworking..electronics.. The list goes on. Please don't condem a post because of a comment..Like myself after a few years on a forum we become family and joke and prod alittle....To a newbee like myself it can get confusing at times..Look at someone with four are more years of commitment to anything and take it with a grain of salt !!!! They have more expertise at what you are just learning than you could ever imagine. The most daugnting task to a newbee is old hat to others. As for Beta testers they are the reason we are advancing at this rate....Pick on me instead...new as it gets and learning from every post. It would be easy cause i can't spell !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Simmons Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Ron Amedee wrote: Pick on me instead...A very noble thing to do... I'm sure we'll do our best to satisfy your request.Max-Paul, for one, will be greatly relieved to see someone step forward just asking for abuse to help take some of the load off him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Amedee Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Amen Brother...Bring it on !!! Will feel like i am on my real job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taybrynn Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Cut and paste in the visualizer would be great. I also wish it was easier to identify items already entered into the visualizer. Would a blink option be a possibility?What would be really cool would be to be able to lay a matrix on top of the visualizer drawing ... and then being able to control those 'visualizer groups' in the sequencer by referencing them by visualizer region #'s.I'd also like auto left -> right, auto red, green, clear and auto top->bottom being things which are predefined and could be selected as a new track default channel layout.i.e.duplicate track -> [x] L->R visualizer + [x] red channels orduplicate track -> [x] red channels orduplicate track -> [x] channels containing tag "mega1" and "red" + [x] l->R visualizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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