Julio Lachaga Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 So I know this topic has been discussed before but I keep forgetting to look into it in more detail. Maybe someone could link me to the solution if they have it. Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse .I moved to Utah from California a year or two ago and now I have to deal with snow, which keeps tripping my GFCI. I do sometimes have two extension cords hooked up to each other, which I try to keep the ends of out of the snow. This is probably my problem here because sometimes they may end up hitting snow anyway. Any ways is there any advice out there that might help me to keep my GFCI from not tripping out anymore.The other question I had regarded to plugging in out side speakers. Does anyone know of a way to hooking outside speakers directly to a computer or a mp3 directed controller. The speakers I have now have stereo wires that hook up to a stereo, and usually I just tune the stereo to the FM transmitter I have, but I think it would be easier if I could find a way to just hook it all up to a regular head phone jack that is usually found on a computer. If that's possible it is.Thanks for your help,Julio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stachows Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 As for the GFCI, I live in WI... we ALWAYS have snow. Has not really caused me any problems, but one the snow sets in, the ground and everything above it stays frozen till spring. I lay my lights before the snow, and then everything just freezes in place... If I do loose a cord or set of lights, it is a real pain to dig it up through 12-24 inches of snow and ice. I try to cover as much as possible.As for the audio... Why not get a cable that goes from the computer right to the Stereo? Best Buy, Radio Shack, Heck even Home Depot sell all kinds, but what would be best is a 1/8th Inch STEREO*(important) on one end to split(two) RCA conncetors on the other... SHould not cost but a few dollars (Less Than $10) then just plug it into the CD input on the Stereo.The 1/8th inch side goes to the computers headphone or Line Out Jack, and the RCA end goes to the Stereo...Hope this Helps,Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBullard Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 juliol wrote: I moved to Utah from California a year or two ago and now I have to deal with snow, which keeps tripping my GFCI. I do sometimes have two extension cords hooked up to each other, which I try to keep the ends of out of the snow. This is probably my problem here because sometimes they may end up hitting snow anyway. Any ways is there any advice out there that might help me to keep my GFCI from not tripping out anymore.If you know which cord connection is your problem, you might try protecting your connection with a simple plastic box. I have to deal with heavy rains here, and this solved my problem.This box is sold at BigLots, WalMart etc as a shoe storage box. Costs about a dollar. I did spray mine with green paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yes as others have hinted to. You need to isolate which circuit is causing the GFI to trip. Or to eliminate the chances of other circuits later causing problems. You need to get things off of the ground. And you might consider getting some of this non-conducting electrical grease. Some places call it No-Ox which is usually used between copper and aluminum connections to keep it from oxidizing. Squeeze this into the female connection and a dab around the surface. Then install the male end of the connection. This will drive out the moisture. Also, sometimes lamps on wire frames that are on the ground will allow some current to flow to the earth ground. And the worse of it, you might have multiable high resistance leaks to ground. Thus it is not just one problem, but a sum of leaks. Some GFI's will trip at 50mA or high leaks.Maybe I am reading your question about your outdoor speakers. You do realize that you cant just hook-up your speakers to the computer or the mp3 director. Neather has enough wattage to drive speakers by themselfs. You will need amplified speakers or a seperate amp to drive the speakers.Good hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBullard Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Max-Paul wrote: Also, sometimes lamps on wire frames that are on the ground will allow some current to flow to the earth ground. And the worse of it, you might have multiable high resistance leaks to ground. Thus it is not just one problem, but a sum of leaks. Some GFI's will trip at 50mA or high leaks.Really? I've welded and lamped over 40 wireframes. We have heavy rains all display season, and I do run my show in the rain, never missed a night. Never had a wireframe trip a GFCI in the rain. Guess I learned something new from you tonight.If I tried using No-Ox on almost a thousand connections in my display, I would have to allow an extra week for just squeezing that stuff.I like using a one dollar plastic box to protect a problem connection location. The picture I posted is protecting 7 connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well, all I can say John, is, good for you. You da man.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Simmons Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 As Scott's neighbor to the west, I second his remarks regarding snow not tripping GFCI's. Rain hasn't been a problem for me either and I use quite a few wire frame devices, including mini trees and I also mount all sorts of things on chain link fence. The only issues I have with GFCI's tripping is when the weather is foggy/misty and the temperature is right around freezing. And that was back in the static display era when I'd load most circuits to their absolute max. I think if you do a thorough inspection, you're going to find a cracked or frayed cord somewhere that's causing the problem(s), or a connection that's underwater or in the way of runoff from the roof or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul sessel Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It could also just be a weak GFCI outlet. Putting in a new one might take care of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I was just sitting here wondering why I feel so on the defence. And it came to me. If you do not agree, then just state that you have never had this problem. Do, not tell me how long it will take you to do what ever I suggested (John). Remember, the suggestions are free. If you disagree, just move on. You do not have to try to belittle me for what I suggested. But I think I remember some of the post that were coming in here this past year. People having troubles with their GFI tripping. Why do you think the post that is now stickied, something to the effect of "Why do I want to use a GFI". Pure water does not conduct. But rain is no longer PURE water. Add any kind of dirt and water, and you have a semi-conductor. As I aluded to in my earlier post. Enough mA leaks can add up to a sum great enough to cause a GFI to trip.So, gentlemen the attacks are not welcome. State your suggestions and spend less time disagreeing with mine. And let the OP decide for himself.Oh, and I am happy for you that you have not had any troubles with your GFI tripping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Last year a GFCI tripped when we had the first rain. I tried to find where the problem was by turning the channels on one-by-one, but that didn't make it trip. It only tripped when multiple channels were on at the same time. It must have been a case of smaller currents adding up to be enough to trip it.I was able to deduce which channels caused more current leakage. The worst channel was a row of luminaries which is basically thin plastic with C7 sockets that were sitting on the lawn. They also had some male-female connections between the groups. I unplugged them and the show ran.The next day I plugged them back in and the show ran fine for the rest of the season. My theory is that a little rain caused the dirt to conduct current to ground, but more rain washed the dirt away, and pure rainwater is not very conductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Lachaga Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks to everyone for your posts, they were all very helpful. I'll take a look at all my wires and the GFCI socket and see if there is a problems any where around that area. I also like the container idea and think I may try that. Ill also look for the cables for the audio. Thanks again to everyone that has posted. Julio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melwelch Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well I do not have this problem... No GFCIs in my display... I run the show rain or shine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Lambert Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 For me I have everything on GFI's ,12 in all. Being in Canada I always have to deal with the snow and usually there's no problem. But last year we had some rain mixed with the snow and it drove me crazy with the GFI's tripping. After alot of Plugging and unplugging I narrowed it down to my minilight trees (1350 bulbs) and the Northpole sign (400 bulbs). So when it rained I would unplug those and everything worked fine. I don't believe they went to ground because my Northpole sign is made of wood but I think they leaked to neutral enough to trip. As Max-Paul said with GFI's it's the sum of all leaks conected to that particular GFI. This year I switched my northpole sign to LED's it's a sealed base so no water can get in. As a extra precaution I also sprayed it with Conformal coating. We'll see if that works! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Darryl,My friend, a GFI will not trip if there is a leak between hot and neutral. A GFI monitors the current going out on the hot lead. It also monitors the current coming back in on the neutral lead. These two values must be the same with in about 50ma I think is the rating on one model we use here at work (square D). If there is a difference between the two, the breaker will trip. So in plain words and using larger numbers this is how it works. Lets say I can see that I have 10 amps going out on the hot lead, but only 9 amps on the neutral lead coming back in from the circuit. This would cause the breaker to trip. And yes the 1 missing amp would be going to earth ground either on the green wire or into your lawn. But lets say there is no difference between the going and coming back amps. This could be because you are not conducting to ground, yet you are between the hot and neutral leads like you have slipped and your finger is touching the two prongs and the plug is half way into the recepticle. Or you have w white wire in one hand and the black in the other and your wife plugs in the cord. As long as you do not leak any current into the ground. The GFI part of the breaker will not trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Max-Paul wrote: These two values must be the same with in about 50ma I think is the rating on one model we use here at work (square D).The NEC says that GFCI's used in residences must conform to UL 943, which says they must remove the power when the current difference is between 4 and 6 mA. Sources say that it takes about 6mA to cause the heart to fibrillate. Anything less than this would most likely not cause electrocution.GFCI's for commercial installations can trip at higher currents, like the one you have at work. I'm not sure why this is the case, but I suppose a residential GFCI would have too many false trips in a typical commercial environment. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Thanks Steven, for the clarification. I felt that I might have been saying something wrong. Cause back some 30 yrs ago, I seem to remember that it took far less than 50mA to kill. I am thinking it was like 10mA as I remember it. But hey that was 30 yrs ago and memory gets a little confused.Thanks again for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Jeff Millard wrote: Going from memory, I thought it was 50ma to interfere with normal heart function, and 5ma to trip off a GFCI...I found a table in chapter 19 of College Physics, 2nd Edition that says:1mA is the threshold of sensation (when you can feel it, without pain);5mA is the maximum harmless current;At 10-20mA, sustained muscular contraction can happen, including the chest muscles, which can stop breathing;Pain doesn't start until 50mA;100-300mA can cause ventricular fibrillation;300mA can cause burns;and 6000mA (6A) is used by defibrillators.However, that table may be only for DC current - 60Hz may have different thresholds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossgroove Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 In Florida, I've had problems in the past, but I have taken all connections off of the yard, and my mini trees are tomato cages and I put those on pieces of wood. Since those 2 changes, I have not had a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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