Strobe light help and information

[buratti]

Hi, I am planning on doing a Halloween show this year, and what's a Halloween light show without strobe lights right? I have never worked with strobe lights before and have a few questions...

Well first of all how do they actually work and what different kinds of strobes are there? I understand the old school disco strobe lights that you just plug in and they start flashing, but of what I have found to buy on the net, it doesn't seem like thats the case, or is it?

Second, how do I connect them? Do they screw into a regular C7 or C9 Xmas light strand? Do I need a separate socket for each? A separate channel for each (if i want different flash times)?

Third, do i have to use my sequence editor to get them to flash at the rate i want or do they automatically flash when power is supplied to them like the disco strobes?

Can someone give me the run down on how they work and possibly point me in the direction as to where to purchase some.

Thank you

Joe

[zman]

Joe,

There are several types of strobes. The larger units are AC plugged into power. These are what you referred to as old school. There are DMX strobes controlled via DMX. For LOR you are required to have an iDMX.

Where you are going, is what is available for small screw in. These are done with C9 sockets. You can buy wire pre-populated with the sockets, or make your own using Zip (vampire) C9 sockets.

There are several vendors out there, Action Lighting and Creative Displays sell colored and clear units that flash approx once to twice a second. Both of these sell pre-populated C9 wire or the SPT(X) Zip connectors as well.

Christmas Light Show has a strobe that is a staple used by many here. While not as durable and weather proof as those above, the brilliance and flash rate is better. These flash up to 4-5 times a second. I have a pretty good presentation on my website on how to make more resistent to moisture and how to fix them if needed.

You can run both AC and C9 style strobes from LOR. The former, if you only want a single flash requires a bit of a modification using a relay to strobe on command. Otherwise, both will strobe on command for as long a duration as your sequence allows once they are connected to an LOR controller. As far as how many channels you need, well, depending on the effect you are looking to create, one should suffice.

Hope that helped.

[buratti]

Yes for the most part that answered my questions, but I might have misunderstood some things.

So I am clear... you are suggesting for what i am looking for is a C9 type "bulb" that screws into a socket and they will flash from 1-5 times a second (depending on model) as long as power is supplied to them? Correct?

So how do people string a half dozen or so strobes in a tree or something but each strobe is flashing at different rates or times (but still within milliseconds of each other)? Is each strobe on a separate channel, or are they stringed together on the same channel but with modified relays?


And if I was correct about the C9 type "bulb", then would I be able to use an old C9 Xmas light string and screw a few into that? If so what are the restrictions on that (meaning I'm sure I cant have a strand of 25-50 strobes can I)?

[mnkyboy]

buratti wrote:

Yes for the most part that answered my questions, but I might have misunderstood some things.

So I am clear... you are suggesting for what i am looking for is a C9 type "bulb" that screws into a socket and they will flash from 1-5 times a second (depending on model) as long as power is supplied to them? Correct?

Yes.....just make sure you use either on or off...

So how do people string a half dozen or so strobes in a tree or something but each strobe is flashing at different rates or times (but still within milliseconds of each other)? Is each strobe on a separate channel, or are they stringed together on the same channel but with modified relays?

Most are strung together, just like a set of c-9 bulbs. They flash at different rates due to the slight differences in tolerance of the internals of the strobes..it creates a wee bit of variances in the flash rates...

And if I was correct about the C9 type "bulb", then would I be able to use an old C9 Xmas light string and screw a few into that? If so what are the restrictions on that (meaning I'm sure I cant have a strand of 25-50 strobes can I)?

Yep... that how I am going to use mine.. I am going to hack up some c-9 strings I picked up for $2 on after christmas sales, Toss the Incandescent bulbs and attched the strobes....25 on a string is no problem as these draw very little current.. you can probably get up to 50 or more with no problem.. I only have 25 for now.. maybe others will chime in that use more and can give more details of how many they run per channel.

[Max-Paul]

I'm no expert and I am sure someone will come along and correct me. From doing a lotof research myself for I had some of the same questions.

First there are two types of strobes. LED and the old flash tube like the type a camera flash unit uses.

Now for the LED type. They do draw less current, but I have only seen one speed and I think I remember that to be about 2 flashes per second.

then there is the type that uses a gas filled tube. I have seen two speeds, one is about 2 flashes per seconds and one that flashes 4 times per second.


I dont know about the LED type, but the flash tube type have a slight delay before they flash. So, in your sequence you might need to turn them on about .5 second before you want it to flash. YMMV and will require some testing. I am to understand that there was some problems with Darry's flash tube type in the past with condensation inside of the dome. But I think I heard that they have better seals now and this problem has been minimized. I have 2 of the fast flash and 4 of the slow flash and this will be my first year trying them. So again all of the above is book learning and no experience myself.

Max

[JBullard]

I'm using both types (LED and Xeon) in my 4th July display, mixed on the same string.

Once they start firing, I can't tell which is which, the fire rate is about the same in my opinion.

[Max-Paul]

Well John, I suppose that is a matter of whos strobes you got and weather or not they offer two different strobes in the matter of firing rate. Like I stated, I bought from Daryl and he offers two different firing rates. Although it is possible that you might not notice if one is only firing at a rate of 2 per second and another is firing at a rate of 4 per second. Although I would think that a strobe flashing twice per second would look a little less active than if it is bordered by two strobes flashing 4 times per second.

In my applicaton, I have two of the 4 times per second that will be mounted under my eave pointing out to the street. And when the machine gun fire starts in the "Snoopy's Christmas" I will light them up. And when the shells are coming in during the start of the song. I will use the 2 per second and try to time it right so that they flash only once per explosion. I have 4 of these that I will play in the front yard so that the viewers feel that they are viewing an active battle field. Trying to put them in the mood of the time that the song is signing about, WWII.

Max

[JBullard]

Max, could be.

I've been using Darryll's strobes for several years now, and this year received some of the LED strobes from Paul at CDI. In my 4th July display, I have them on the same string mounted on my 9 1/2 foot tall wireframe firecracker, and they fire for 5 seconds as the firecraker explodes.

Once they first fire, then it is total random, with some of the LEDs firing faster then others (xeon or LED) and some of the xeons firing faster then other xeons.

In the years I have been using strobes one thing I've noticed about the xeons (and now the LEDs) is that none of them seem to fire at the same rate - which I like as it really gives a random effect to the display.

I did take both types to the Carolina mini, (in early June) and once they were powered up, most of the people there couldn't tell if one type of strobe was firing any faster then the other type once the random effect took place.

I use the strobes in my 4th July display (32 channels), Halloween (96 channels) and of course at Christmas which last year was 288 channels - even more will be added for 2009.

Your Snoopy machine gun sounds neat. Hmm, maybe I should add some purple lights to the Snoopy wireframe I built to simulate bullet holes in the doghouse.

[JBullard]

Arrg, triple post ! Sorry

[JBullard]

Double Post

[Max-Paul]

LOL talk about rapid firing JB.
Oh, I agree with you and several hundred more that even if you have two strobes made with the same componets. Over time the small difference in componet values (see tolerence) will cause the strobes to loose sync and flash randomly.

So, I am asking this. From what you have seen for yourself. The LED strobes from CDI are as good as the Xeon strobes that Daryl sells? I will be very interested to hear your observation. I believe that this is what you are saying is that no one can tell the difference in brilliance between the two? I would think if the contruction of the two are equal, then the LED units would last longer that the gas tube of the Xeon tubes. But at this minute I do not know what the cost of the LED units is. I know that the Xeon tube version that Daryl sells is about $6.50 if my memory servers me conrrectly.

Thanks JB

Max

[JBullard]

Max-Paul wrote:

So, I am asking this. From what you have seen for yourself. The LED strobes from CDI are as good as the Xeon strobes that Daryl sells? I will be very interested to hear your observation. I believe that this is what you are saying is that no one can tell the difference in brilliance between the two? I would think if the contruction of the two are equal, then the LED units would last longer that the gas tube of the Xeon tubes. But at this minute I do not know what the cost of the LED units is. I know that the Xeon tube version that Daryl sells is about $6.50 if my memory servers me conrrectly.

Thanks JB

Max

Due to difference in construction - viewed from the side the xeon strobe has a slight advantage since the xeon tube extends into the lens. Viewed head on, neither I nor others that have seen them together can tell the difference.

Durability - I loose about a third of my xeon strobes every season. Doesn't matter if they are drilled with vent holes or not. In fact, as Darryll recommends, drilling the lens when mounted lens side down, drilling the base if mounting lens up, really limits my usage since I have applications where they are mounted both ways. I have to make sure I select the correct Xeon strobe that is drilled for the application. It is too early to tell if the LED strobes will experience a similar failure rate or not, another reason I have them out now.

Cost - yes the xeon strobes from Darryl were $6 +. The LED strobes from Paul at CDI were $3.75 each on the presale, regular $5.25 ea in lots 10. Next week they go on sale for approx $4.20 each lots of 10. I'm ordering more LED strobes next week.

Even if the LED strobes should have the same failure rate as the xeons, I'll still be money ahead in replacing the 20 or so that I loose from the xeons failures each season.

Just as I'm using 33,000 plus LEDs from CDI this year, I'll be changing all my strobes to LEDs also as the xeon's fail. (Only have about 30 something xeons left in inventory now. I lost 2 this week while the LEDs are flashing right along. I did not drill the LEDs, but did the xeons to let the condensation out. The insides of the xeons readily show moisture from condensation now, and we haven't had any rain in several weeks.

This has been my experience (and many others) with the xeons failing.

[Max-Paul]

John,

Thanks for your reply tell me of your experience with Daryl's Xeon strobes. I have heard about the condensation problem and of people who have drilled holes in the lens or the back side as you have described.

For my one application where I want the strobes in the yard to simulate explosions. The Xeon will be the best for the flashes to light up the ground around them. But I suppose if I was to mound and LED strobe to shine down that it might give a close enough effect to do what I want.

Again, thanks for the reply

Max

[friskybri]

i got 30 of the LED from CDI. The only thing that I don't like is when you first power up they all flash but quickly change to random. I am going to get 20 more next week.

[Robert Burton]

JBullard wrote:

Max-Paul wrote:

Cost - yes the xeon strobes from Darryl were $6 +. The LED strobes from Paul at CDI were $3.75 each on the presale, regular $5.25 ea in lots 10. Next week they go on sale for approx $4.20 each lots of 10. I'm ordering more LED strobes next week.

Even if the LED strobes should have the same failure rate as the xeons, I'll still be money ahead in replacing the 20 or so that I loose from the xeons failures each season.

Just as I'm using 33,000 plus LEDs from CDI this year, I'll be changing all my strobes to LEDs also as the xeon's fail. (Only have about 30 something xeons left in inventory now. I lost 2 this week while the LEDs are flashing right along. I did not drill the LEDs, but did the xeons to let the condensation out. The insides of the xeons readily show moisture from condensation now, and we haven't had any rain in several weeks.

This has been my experience (and many others) with the xeons failing.

>>>>Hi Everyone. Just getting into this "OBSESSION" and it looks like I'll have great company:) I am making my shopping list and getting ready for the sale. Figured I would go ahead and purchase a few other items to add to it as well. Strobes are one.

So from what I am reading...the LED strobes would be the way to go? When I first looked at CDI's prices...WOW! But you are saying that they are per 10?? Funny that the site doesn't say anything about this. Anyway, very excited about all this and looking forward to Christmas even more now!

Thanks,
Robert Burton
Fayetteville,GA

[Surfing4Dough]

friskybri wrote:

i got 30 of the LED from CDI. The only thing that I don't like is when you first power up they all flash but quickly change to random. I am going to get 20 more next week.

So has anybody seen a video of a "string" of these CDI LEDs when they are first powered up, so we can see how they start off (in unison). I am really torn between these from CDI and Darryll's--I lean towards Darryll's (based on appearance and firing rate), but CDI's are cheaper, use less power, and potentially more reliable. I am new to LOR this year and planning about a 10-12ft megatree, with 10 strobes within it.

Another issue of concern: I live on the outer edge of a 90 degree bend in the road, and the strobes will be in the megatree that is about 30' from the road. Is there such a thing as "too bright" of a flash from these, thus blinding a driving on the bend? Would be bad if a driver crashed into the display or a house! Not sure if either the CDI or Xeon ones would make a difference with this (thinking particularly of the initial unison flash). Or is this not something to even be concerned about--10 bulbs at 30-40 feet? I have never seen these in a display live--only others videos, which doesn't capture the true effect.

[zman]

OK I got back in town and can comment a bit here.

I was the original tester for Paul on his CDI strobes. They are constructed very well, and I left one plugged in continuously for 2 weeks with no failure.

It comes down to the points that John made. The orientation and flash rate. Darryl's strobes flash about 4-5 times per second, Paul's get close to twice. I did side by side comparisons, and the only other issues that I saw with the early CDI prototype models, is the strobe sometimes lagged the command. Darryl's were always spot on.

Darryl's do fail a bit more. They have also been used longer since CDIs are new this year. This is almost exclusively due to condensation. Darryl's can be oriented any way with no flash compromise. Paul's do lose a bit if you are not looking straight on.

If you spray conformal coating on the PCBs of Darryl's strobes, you will increase the life and see no where near the failures that are moisture related. Granted, this is extra work, but can extend the life of this investment if you already have made it.

In looking at Paul's site, I believe his pricing is for a case of 12, with Darryl you can get his strobes for a low as $5.50, but you can get odd lots. I have a close to 200 Darryl strobes and will be using some of CDIs as well this year. CDI additionally has colors which is an interesting concept. It will be interesting to see these used in displays. Just my dos centavos.