Testing if LEDs are Usaeable with LOR

[BryanLeggo]

Since the big post-Christmas light sales are happening I was wondering if there's an easy way to test if LED lights will do proper fades and such with LOR software. I know that connecting it to the actual hardware is one way to test but would it also work to just test it with a standard household dimmer switch to see how they react to the changes in voltage?

[George Simmons]

That might depend on how much time you want to spend manually dimming and brightening the lights. I got some LED's from Fleet Farm and they worked well for the hour or so I tested them. I put them in the yard and after a week or so they dimmed to a point where at full intensity they looked like only 20-30%. After that, any LED's I bought I put in the garage and plugged a set into a controller overnight and did nothing but continuous loop of fades up and down - various speeds and intensities. If the lights still worked in the morning, I got more. If they crapped out during the night, I considered myself lucky to have only wasted the money on one set. A little late to use that approach now perhaps, but at least it let me know in advance which brands to get at clearance prices and which to avoid.

PS - put them someplace fireproof for testing, just in case they respond as rudely as some of CDI's LEDs have for some folks.

[stanward]

Is there some older posts of people complaining of a certain brand of LEDs that did not work well with the LOR?

[JBullard]

stanward wrote:

Is there some older posts of people complaining of a certain brand of LEDs that did not work well with the LOR?

The 2008 CDI did not play well with LOR. They were from a new factory. Paul is replacing them.

The 2005, 2006 and 2007 factory that CDI used were excellent. For 2009 CDI is using the old "Good" factory. Preorder sale is in January. These are FWR LEDs. Very high quality.

I have over 600 strings of CDI and will not use anyone's else. Paul at CDI gives customer service as good as Dan & Co. here at LOR.

A lot of people compain that many of the retail store stuff will rust out in just a very short time.

[TomD]

I bought LED's last year from Home Depot and Big Lots. I wanted to test them to see if they would last using fades. I set up an animation sequence and had it fade some channels up and down, both slow and fast, several times per minute. I plugged in a set of each kind of light and turned it on and let it run in my garage for a week. I calculated that they were fading something like 15,000 times per day. so I figured if they lasted that way for a week, they would be okay. They did, so I included fades in my sequencing for my channels that have LED's on them for this year. As of today, I have had no problems with my LED's. I even used the ones that were part of the test and everything is working just fine. The only lights I've had any problems with were my Walmart mini's that I bought this year at the last minute.

[stanward]

What happened to your WalMart minis?

You guys say the fading is what damages the LEDs, what about shimmering, wouldn't that kill the LEDs faster than fading?



TomD wrote:

I bought LED's last year from Home Depot and Big Lots. I wanted to test them to see if they would last using fades. I set up an animation sequence and had it fade some channels up and down, both slow and fast, several times per minute. I plugged in a set of each kind of light and turned it on and let it run in my garage for a week. I calculated that they were fading something like 15,000 times per day. so I figured if they lasted that way for a week, they would be okay. They did, so I included fades in my sequencing for my channels that have LED's on them for this year. As of today, I have had no problems with my LED's. I even used the ones that were part of the test and everything is working just fine. The only lights I've had any problems with were my Walmart mini's that I bought this year at the last minute.

[Dennis Cherry]

stanward wrote:

What happened to your WalMart minis?

You guys say the fading is what damages the LEDs, what about shimmering, wouldn't that kill the LEDs faster than fading?



TomD wrote:

I bought LED's last year from Home Depot and Big Lots. I wanted to test them to see if they would last using fades. I set up an animation sequence and had it fade some channels up and down, both slow and fast, several times per minute. I plugged in a set of each kind of light and turned it on and let it run in my garage for a week. I calculated that they were fading something like 15,000 times per day. so I figured if they lasted that way for a week, they would be okay. They did, so I included fades in my sequencing for my channels that have LED's on them for this year. As of today, I have had no problems with my LED's. I even used the ones that were part of the test and everything is working just fine. The only lights I've had any problems with were my Walmart mini's that I bought this year at the last minute.

No LED's can take all the fading, shimmering and twinkles you can give them.

You got some bad information.

My display is 15,000 LED's without any of those problems.

Watch what you read.

[Rafter Bar R]

I think what kills LED's is bad design such as leaving out full wave rectifiers and not using enough resistance in the string. Most likely the LED's are being overdriven and that is why many strings fail.

[-klb-]

Any LEDs with capacitors in them are a problem if you try to dim them... This includes the 2008 CDI LEDs, and many C7 & C9 retrofit bulbs... Most half wave and full wave LEDs do fine, but may not draw enough current on their own for the LOR controllers to behave fine.

[stanward]

If the LED string does not draw enough power, you can always install a single C7 or C9 incandescent bulb at the end of the LED string (I would think at the beginning would be fine too).



-klb- wrote:

Any LEDs with capacitors in them are a problem if you try to dim them... This includes the 2008 CDI LEDs, and many C7 & C9 retrofit bulbs... Most half wave and full wave LEDs do fine, but may not draw enough current on their own for the LOR controllers to behave fine.

[TomD]

stanward wrote:

What happened to your WalMart minis?

You guys say the fading is what damages the LEDs, what about shimmering, wouldn't that kill the LEDs faster than fading?



TomD wrote:

I bought LED's last year from Home Depot and Big Lots. I wanted to test them to see if they would last using fades. I set up an animation sequence and had it fade some channels up and down, both slow and fast, several times per minute. I plugged in a set of each kind of light and turned it on and let it run in my garage for a week. I calculated that they were fading something like 15,000 times per day. so I figured if they lasted that way for a week, they would be okay. They did, so I included fades in my sequencing for my channels that have LED's on them for this year. As of today, I have had no problems with my LED's. I even used the ones that were part of the test and everything is working just fine. The only lights I've had any problems with were my Walmart mini's that I bought this year at the last minute.

I've had a couple of the walmart minis that had issues with either the wire pulling out of the socket or out of the plug. That happened with 2 strings I bought this year. I've never had that problem before. Hopefully it is isolated.

As far as shimmering LED's, I've stayed away from that. Just fades and dimming.

[Videoguy84]

As far as shimmering LED's, I've stayed away from that. Just fades and dimming.

I shimmer my LEDs a lot and have had no problems. Shimmer looks more like a strobe with LEDs and is a neat effect with some the rock'n songs in my display. My LEDs are the 60 ct ones from Walmart and I should also mention they dim extremely smoothly, better then all the others I tried to be honest.

[stanward]

That is great to know! Thanks guys!

Stan



Videoguy84 wrote:

As far as shimmering LED's, I've stayed away from that. Just fades and dimming.

I shimmer my LEDs a lot and have had no problems. Shimmer looks more like a strobe with LEDs and is a neat effect with some the rock'n songs in my display. My LEDs are the 60 ct ones from Walmart and I should also mention they dim extremely smoothly, better then all the others I tried to be honest.

[Rafter Bar R]

Why is there such a disconnect between LED string manufacturers and the the people who use LED strings? You would think that with all of the computerized light displays that LED strings would be compatible with these controllers. Doesn't anyone in the industry do any market research anymore? Come on, how hard is it to search the Internet and read a few discussion forums? Also why are there not any warnings on packages of LED string lights concerning the use of computer controllers or light faders?

[Videoguy84]

I agree, they are quite vague when offering info about their own product. The fact (as I previously mentioned in another thread) that they don't specify half-wave or full-wave on the box is a good example (most all retail strings are half wave though). Also some sort of notice like "compatible with animation controllers" somewhere on the package would be nice, or at the very least a "do not use on dimming circuits" so we'd know they're a no-go. Due to the lack of information we're left to do our own 'research'

[Kenneth D]

Do the LEDs die, or is it the rectifier circuit. If it is the rectifier, I would think some of the smart guys could figure out a rectifier that could be spliced into a string or even (more practical), one that was big enough to replace several strings.



On another note.

I just bought some LEDs to play with at the after Christmas sale at Wally World. I know they are supposed to be more reliable, but I see they don't have a shunt, so how do you track down the problem child in a string?

I guess the same question is true for incandescent bulbs. Does anyone have a good technique for tracking down a loose bulb or failed shunt? I have a wire frame that I am getting ready to restring because I have had too many problems with the strings.

[JBullard]

Kenneth D wrote:

Do the LEDs die, or is it the rectifier circuit. If it is the rectifier, I would think some of the smart guys could figure out a rectifier that could be spliced into a string or even (more practical), one that was big enough to replace several strings.



On another note.

I just bought some LEDs to play with at the after Christmas sale at Wally World. I know they are supposed to be more reliable, but I see they don't have a shunt, so how do you track down the problem child in a string?

I guess the same question is true for incandescent bulbs. Does anyone have a good technique for tracking down a loose bulb or failed shunt? I have a wire frame that I am getting ready to restring because I have had too many problems with the strings.

Kenneth, the LEDs rarely die, usually it may be a current limiting resistor or an underrated bridge rectifier in a Full Wave Rectified set. In order to salvage some of the 2008 CDI strings, we did rebuild the rectifier packs on both ends of the strings -

One other problem common to some retail store LEDs is rusting on the leads or sockets. Some here have reported rusting of the steel LED leads in a matter of weeks. A lot of use prefer strings with sealed sockets - no way for water to enter.

When dealing with LEDs, forget everything you knew about trouble shooting incadescent strings. LEDs do not have shunts (no bulb filament to shunt) and the normal light test tools (like the Light Keeper Pro) do not work with LEDs, totally different technology. For 2009 CDI is returning to the previous factory (2005 - 2007) sealed non-replaceable bulbs, full wave rectified, etc. Excellent lights. After the 2009 preorder, I'll have over 600 strings of these.

For your third paragraph, the best technique for tracking down problems with incadescent strings is to use a tool like the Light Keeper Pro. Just takes seconds normally.