Box on Rails Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) This is a question for the Network guys. How many Networks can a LOR set up use before there is a possible slow down of data transfer? I have seven networks in my display and each network supports a maximum of 2500 pixels. This seems to handle the motion effects I through at them very well. I had one network that supported 5000 pixels and for the most part at 30 dimming curve it handles most motion effects OK but the ones that were really complex had a lot of lag, so I spilt it into 2 networks at 2500 pixels and as I said before it works as intended. How many more networks can I add before it effects data transfer speed? Does the computer CPU speed play the biggest role in this? Thanks for the helpful info. Kenny Edited June 19 by Box on Rails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 A USB port on the PC has a maximum speed, so watch out for putting all the heavy hitters on a (external) powered hub. Inside the PC, there is also a "Root Hub", the supplies the ports. My desktop has 3 (one is 3.0), but a Laptop may only have 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimehc Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) As stated a USB Port has a certain Data Transfer Rate (a Port usually being a Pair of USB two Plugs) - So adding Multiple LOR Adapters to a USB Port becomes the Network Speed Bottle Neck Edited June 19 by Jimehc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 If you had 5000 pixels on one LOR network, that was your problem. Even 2500 pixels might be a problem - although if it's 1000K enhanced, it might be OK. As for the USB side of it, even the USB 2.0 standard (almost 25 years old) is orders of magnitude faster the any LOR network. You would run out of LOR networks LONG before you choked a USB port. So, yes feel free to expand your USB ports with external USB hubs. STRONGLY recommend that you use powered hubs - in other words, use hubs that have a power adapter so you are NOT trying to power everything from the computer USB port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimehc Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Jim, you have not been keeping up..... Ask Carry Dawn (8 LOR Networks on 1 USB Hub) FAIL.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 2 hours ago, Jimehc said: Jim, you have not been keeping up..... Ask Carry Dawn (8 LOR Networks on 1 USB Hub) FAIL.......... It's not due to the USB speed - unless he's trying to use USB 1 (vintage 1996). Even USB 2.0 is 480 Mb/s. Pretty sure JRDibble runs close to 16 LOR networks off a single USB port on the computer with one or more powered hubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 (edited) Thank You all. That helps a lot. 11 hours ago, k6ccc said: If you had 5000 pixels on one LOR network, that was your problem. Even 2500 pixels might be a problem - although if it's 1000K enhanced, it might be OK. Jim 2500 pixels on a 1000k network works great for me. Right now the seven RJ-485 High speed adapters work as needed for the max of 2500 pixels. I have 3 Matrixes in my display with 2500 pixels and each are on there own Network and the the rest of the house has 4 more networks with probably less the 1000 pixels on each. At this time I have room to expand on these lower pixel networks so I should have no need to expand my network count at this time. But in the future things could change, I just wanted to get out in front of this before it becomes an issue. I have basic knowledge of how networks work but the topic of speed is beyond my expertise. Thanks again for the info. be well all. Kenny Edited June 20 by Box on Rails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 With all the pixels you are running you might consider using a E1.31 network. It is way faster and you will only need one. This will cut down on the number of LOR networks and it makes things much easier. I run around 60 controllers and only run two total networks, one LOR RS485 network which has about 12 CTB16 and CMB24 controllers and one E1.31 network which runs all the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 5 minutes ago, Mr. P said: With all the pixels you are running you might consider using a E1.31 network. It is way faster and you will only need one. This will cut down on the number of LOR networks and it makes things much easier. I run around 60 controllers and only run two total networks, one LOR RS485 network which has about 12 CTB16 and CMB24 controllers and one E1.31 network which runs all the rest. I have never considered E1.31. sounds like this might be something I need to consider now as my Pixels and controller count keeps growing. 2024 is set but I will spend a little time to see what I need to start using E1.31. One network will be way better then 7. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 Next question. Will all my Pixie controllers work on a E1.31 network? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Box on Rails said: Next question. Will all my Pixie controllers work on a E1.31 network? No, not directly LOR RS485 network only, there are ways but you would have to purchase a PixieLink. You can use Pixcon16, the new Aurora controller or any of the available aftermarket controllers. https://store.lightorama.com/collections/computer-adapters-and-repeaters/products/pixielink Edited June 20 by Mr. P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 7 minutes ago, Mr. P said: No, not directly LOR RS485 network only, there are ways but you would have to purchase a PixieLink. You can use Pixcon16, the new Aurora controller or any of the available aftermarket controllers. https://store.lightorama.com/collections/computer-adapters-and-repeaters/products/pixielink So does the pixielink do the same as the E1.31 but in an LOR network? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) The PixieLink takes a single E1.31 network in and outputs a bunch of LOR networks (eight if I remember right). Also since you are driving Pixie controllers, you can run a higher LOR network speed between the PixieLink and your Pixie controllers. So what you would do is run a single E1.31 network from your show computer to the PixieLink (presumably mounted near the props) and then much shorter cabling from the PixieLink to the Pixie controllers. And I completely agree, E1.31 is the way to go. Been using E1.31 since 2012. Edited June 20 by k6ccc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 I want to consider E1.31 but I don't want to have to replace all my LOR controllers. If I understand correctly the pixielink would allow me to use my pixie controllers with one E1.31 network to the Pixielink that will control all my lights is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Pixielink does have a firmware UPDATE needed on older Pixie controllers to be fully compatible. Do review the firmware versions of your devices. Some may need to stay Old School (AC for one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 It has only 6 ports. And it depends on the pixie FW or how they are used. this is from the manual: Quote Async Network Protocols and Speeds The Async RS485 ports on the PixieLink adapter can be configured at the following speeds: DMX -- 250Kbps ELOR -- 19.2Kbps, 57.6Kbps, 115.2Kbps, 500Kbps, 1Mbps PixieLink – 4.25Mbps, 8.5Mbps, 17Mbps Note: PixieLink protocol is only for Pixie controllers. Pixie firmware version 1.06 or higher is required. All Pixies will support the 4.25M speed because all Pixies were shipped with 5Mbps RS485 drivers. Usually, the 5Mbps driver will work with the 8.5Mbps speed, but that cannot be guaranteed. The 10Mbps RS485 chip is required for 17Mbps. Speeds 4.25 & 8.5 are good for total network cable lengths up to 600’. 17Mbps is limited to 200’. The driver IC is the socketed 8-pin chip near the RJ45 jacks. The main two chips we use are: ISL 62ALPFM 81487EIPZ 65HVD08 LI527AAGB The number bolded is usually in the middle, surrounded by manufacturer designation/date codes. The 81487EIPZ is a 5Mbps part. The 65HVD08 is a 10Mbps part. If you have a different part number, go to digikey.com and type it in the search bar. It should take you to an RS485 chip or a list of them. Click one and check the maximum speed. You may have to download the data sheet. Look for Mbps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 10 minutes ago, TheDucks said: Pixielink does have a firmware UPDATE needed on older Pixie controllers to be fully compatible. Do review the firmware versions of your devices. Some may need to stay Old School (AC for one) I have all Pixie controllers and all Have the most current firmware. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimehc Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 the Pixielink can be configured to output to 6 LOR Type Networks - with two Pixie16's per LOR Type Network (ie 12 Pixie16's Total) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibblejr Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 6/19/2024 at 9:21 PM, Jimehc said: Jim, you have not been keeping up..... Ask Carry Dawn (8 LOR Networks on 1 USB Hub) FAIL.......... I had more than that on my powered network hubs and never had a problem. Was she using a powered USB hub? Who mfgd the Hub? I had 2 7 Port USB hubs before going 100% pixels and S5. They were mfgd By Black Web and sold at Walmart. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 13 hours ago, dibblejr said: I had more than that on my powered network hubs and never had a problem. Was she using a powered USB hub? Who mfgd the Hub? I had 2 7 Port USB hubs before going 100% pixels and S5. They were mfgd By Black Web and sold at Walmart. JR Sounds to me the hub used had 8 ports, but didn't realize only 4 were externally powered by the adapter[12vdc], the other 4 were powered[5vdc] via the computer USB port. I just replaced my ancient powered USB HUB that was like this with a newer version, and all 10 ports are powered, 6 data ports and 4 dedicated charging only ports. Many older[and even some newer] powered USB hubs you have to make sure ALL ports are powered, and none powered only from the computer USB port, which some of the new ones are still 4 powered and 3 or 4 unpowered ports, those get powered from the computers USB port to the hub. Sometimes, just because something states "powered hub", look closely, as sometimes that can be a bit deceiving, and not ALL ports are or may be powered. Learned that the hard way when I bought a hub I thought was all ports powered, yet couldn't handle my 5 external hard drives. Took me a bit to figure it out, once I did and got the right type poweted hub, no more issues. Getting ready to buy a 2nd one, one I'm using works great and has bern for close to 2 years now. And I need one for my new laptop so I can use S4 on my old Desktop and S6 on the laptop. Using the external drives for backup and transferring my S4 files to the laptop for conversion to S6. Dtill going to be on S4 for this 2024, just have had too much going on to get into S6 like I had planned for 2024. Always something!😉🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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