CTB16PC seem like overkill for new prop.

[roknjohn]

I'm gong to add several large candycane pinwheels and snowflakes to the roof next year.  Each channel will only have 20-40 C5/C6 LED minis.  In all, I will be adding about 48 channels.  It seems like my existing controllers CTB16PC is overkill for what I need.  Any alternative?  These will be placed directly on the shingles on 2-story steep (12/12) roof.  Trying to minimize wiring.

[TheDucks]

The good news is your controllers are paid for. Anything else is going to cost  for both the controllers and the newer strings,

OTOH 2 @ CMB24, run ungrouped gives you 48 dumb channels (since your stings are short, you can tie 2 or 3 color leads on a single port. R+G+B is white, R+B is Purple... not a lot of choices, but you probably could run both off of a single 350W 12V supply.  If you use standard 4-core (like x-connect) cables, just use a Y and pick the channel (color) off at the pigtail as needed. That gets you down to 16 controller cables, assuming props are in clusters of 3

Rather than lay flat and risk rain... Chimney mount https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GNbvb6PCypJm5oxizE3Ff1iLBckuno9m/view?usp=drive_link (closet pole fits a standard mount)

 

[k6ccc]

Ummm, Roknjohn was talking about AC controllers and you gave him DC controllers as an answer.

 

[Brian Mitchell]

Like the Robin Wheel on my chimney, $20 to build, $400 to control.

 

[TheDucks]

6 hours ago, k6ccc said:

Ummm, Roknjohn was talking about AC controllers and you gave him DC controllers as an answer.

 

That is why I said OTOH for the something else part of the Q.

He did not want 48 cords (and 3 controllers ).  I have 2 CMB24 (and a Pixie4) all in a single standard Cableguard 1500 box

[Little_b]

If you switched all the lights out to Pixels, you could do it all off one controller and minimize cords that way.  Keeping the AC route you would have to use what you stated.  If you don't plan for any dimming, you could use a CMB24 DC controller using Relay Switches, which would decrease controller count, but you would still have to run a cord to each strand of lights.  I feel your pain. I have a "Fountain Arch" in my display that is 6 arches, 8 sections each, and a 6 channel light pole in the middle with a 3 channel star on top- all using ac string lights.  Total channel count is 57 which requires 4 controllers and 57 custom sized cords. (I made my own cords to minimize the excess pile.)

[roknjohn]

Thanks for the info.  I think the CTB16's are rated for 8amps per circuit, which seems like a real waste of a TRIAC if simply blinking a candy cane, which is about 15watts.  I was hoping to find a smaller AC controller with perhaps 8 channels with a much lower rating with LOR.  Each pinwheel would have one of these and all that I would need to run to each would be 110v and cat5.

This year was the first year that I put my show up since 2015, so I don't know what improvements or trends have come along since then.  Are folks using LOR or DMX, or is there another hardware alternative out there?

[Tim Fischer]

The vast majority of my AC channels are carrying a very small load, often a single string of LEDs. Several of these controllers even have two power cords... I've just never bothered to convert them to a single cord, and both cords (as well as several other controllers) plug into a single circuit.

While I'm sure you could shave a few bucks off the price of a controller if you used smaller electric cords, etc it isn't going to be much. And a lower-rated triac, even times 16, isn't going to save you more than a buck or two. Perhaps the huge heat sink is the most unnecessary component, but that makes for a nice mounting bracket.

All the other components (microcontroller, transformer, comm chip, optoisolators, power cords, fuses, etc) are going to be the same no matter what the rating is.

 

[roknjohn]

Good points, Tim.  I guess the cost per channel of a CTB16PC (@ $10.35) is about as low as you can go.  Even if I built my own using a Raspberry Pi Pico ($4-$6) or similar, the dimmers would quickly approach that cost, even if targeting smaller loads.  I guess I was hoping for something smaller and less expensive.  

I currently use plastic shoe boxes to protect my controllers.  I wire them with SPT1 zipcord pigtails.  It was worked great since I started in 2010.  They stay dry, and I can see the LED on the board without having to open them.  But as I contemplate building some new 8-channel props for the roof, or decorating a remote shrub with a 4 channel superstring, I envision something that LOOKS like this, except with a couple RJ45 ports in addition.

 

 

Granted, that is just my imagination.

My current display is all incan, but IF I decide to continue, I will probably make a HUGE investment to switch everything to LED bulb strings (not pixels).  So these new props will likely be LED, as well.  One thing that I am considering is build 4 more candy cane pinwheels, each consisting of 8 candy canes, on 32 separate channels.  These would be placed 10-20 feet apart.  Traditionally, I would have to make 8 runs of SPT1 to each back to two CTB16s.  If each has their own "embedded" 8 channel controller of my imagination, then I'm running 1 SPT1 and 1 cat 5 to each (daisy).  

The power draw on a single 30" or 60" LED candy cane would be what, 20mA ().02A).  That's nothing and 18AWG wire is excessive for that measly load.  Has anyone ever used a multicable, i.e. something like a multicable with a 9-pin connector? 

24awg/9 wire is about $0.22/ft and way less bulky than 8 runs of SPT1 (8*0.20 = $1.60/ft).

 

[Tim Fischer]

Yeah as I entered the hobby a couple decades ago, the cost per channel was the thing that hit me. And I don't think it will ever come down significantly with AC channels.

Now of course with pixels, the cost per channel is much much lower, depending on how many you control from a single pixel controller. 

Sadly I think a lot of decorators consider AC control to be "yesterday's news" now so there isn't a lot of innovation going on there anymore. I use plenty of pixels in my display, but the heart and soul of it is still AC.

 

[TheDucks]

There are things done with AC controllers that can't be made to look as good with RGB (either kind), because they used 2 or 3 color strings intermingled, so you can use any combination of the 3 for the strand.

OTOH you can't have Animated PICTURES

FWIW My second year Mtree had some of the 9 strands with a color and mini strobes or white.

9 because I started at 0, 90, 180, filled in each of those mid way twice.

 

[roknjohn]

I'm not opposed to doing something a bit different for the new props that I'd want to build.  At this point, I'm just strategizing on the lowest cost approach to adding 32 more channels.  If low voltage allows me to be more economical, so be it.  I haven't bought the candy canes (or lights to go in them) yet.

[Tim Fischer]

2 hours ago, TheDucks said:

There are things done with AC controllers that can't be made to look as good with RGB (either kind), because they used 2 or 3 color strings intermingled, so you can use any combination of the 3 for the strand.

I think you can get close... you just can't use the standard effects. For example, there's nothing preventing you from having every fifth pixel be red, blue, green, yellow, orange. I do that sort of thing on my roofline all the time. With enough density it could look just like layered strings.

I think when people say "pixels aren't the look they're going for" what they really mean is they aren't going for the look that 99% of "pixel displays" use, which is a rainbow, video, cover the whole house with a single effect thing. That's not my cup of tea either.

[Steven]

Several years ago LOR talked about a potential new product which would have been ideal for your situation. It was a controller that used power line control to send both AC power and the LOR signal to slave units that would each control 4 low-power (e.g. LED) channels.

In your case you would have the power-line injector on the ground near your network, and a single SPT-1 cord to multiple PLC slave controllers on the roof.

Unfortunately, the pixel craze pushed them in a different direction. Their power line control is mentioned in this data sheet from 2013, but never made it to their store.

Edited January 8 by Steven