Motion Effcts cannot be played on non-Enhanced network.

[Obejohnknobe]

Greetings fellow Light Enthusiasts,

Last night found 2 of the 4 spinners are not working and found 2 of the spinners were on the same id.  Changed id, saved the design preview and now I am getting  a box popped up with "The following items have motion effects that cannot be displayed because they are on an LOR network that is not enhanced.  Either disable controlling lights, update the Prop Definition, update Network Preferences, or remove motion effects."

All 5 of the group: AC Trees Group, Tune To Sign Group, Light Strip Group, Whole House Group, and lastly Flood Lights Group, have 1 thing in common, they are assigned on the regular network on my MP3 Director 4 port.  The first port is called regular.  I have the residential 16 channel assigned (AC trees Group) on the regular network of my MP3 Director as well as 3 - pixie4s and 2 - pixie8s.  Nothing on the regular network needs to run fast (set at 500K)  Everything was working fine until I updated the spinners ids and saved it on my design preview.  Now my design preview will not play until the above happens which is where I am lost as to what to do next.

My whole house has motion effects for parts of each sequence and is really hard to justify deleting them out.  Any suggestions as what is next to do???

Thank you,

John

 

[Steven]

In the Preview Design, go to the "String Summary" tab. Click the "Copy" button (to the left of the "Right-click to make changes to a prop" instruction) and paste it here.

[k6ccc]

That is correct.  Motion Effect do require ELOR (or E1.31) networking.

 

[Obejohnknobe]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

In the Preview Design, go to the "String Summary" tab. Click the "Copy" button (to the left of the "Right-click to make changes to a prop" instruction) and paste it here.

Is there away to print the string Summary short of  screen shot??

[Steven]

2 minutes ago, Obejohnknobe said:

Is there away to print the string Summary short of  screen shot??

Yes, follow the instructions: Click the "Copy" button, then paste into a text editor or directly into this forum.

[k6ccc]

1 minute ago, Obejohnknobe said:

Is there away to print the string Summary short of  screen shot??

Click any box in the grid and type [CTRL-A] which will select everything, then [CTRL-C] to copy it.  Then open a blank Excel spreadsheet and select box A1 and type [CTRL-V] to paste it all into Excel.  That way you can manipulate it FAR easier than you can in the Preview Editor.  

Since what you really are trying to do is paste into the forum, after copying in the Preview Editor, simply paste [CTRL-V] into a forum post.  You end up with something like the extract from one of my preview below:

 

Prop NameItem #LightsBulb ShapeMaster Dimming AppliesDimming CurveDevice TypeNetworkChannel RangeString ColorMaster PropTag

Front porch	1	Channel per color: White	Flood	True	None	LOR	Aux A	Unit 11 Ch   1	White
Bay Window 1 (south)	1	Channel per color: White	Triangle	True	None	LOR	Aux A	Unit 11 Ch   2	White
Bay Window 2 (center)	1	Channel per color: White	Triangle	True	None	LOR	Aux A	Unit 11 Ch   3	White
Bay Window 3 (north)	1	Channel per color: White	Triangle	True	None	LOR	Aux A	Unit 11 Ch   4	White

[Box on Rails]

16 hours ago, Obejohnknobe said:

"The following items have motion effects that cannot be displayed because they are on an LOR network that is not enhanced.  Either disable controlling lights, update the Prop Definition, update Network Preferences, or remove motion effects."

When I have gotten this message before I change the network that the props were assigned to Enhanced or move them to an existing enhanced network and the problem was solved. I don't use a MP3 director so I may be completely off here. How many networks is the Director capable of using? 

[Jimehc]

When setting up the Show for the Director - one of the Options is the Network Settings - just set that network to ELOR (Enhanced LOR) and continue writing the Show to the SD Card

But you should also go into > Control Panel > Network - highlight that network > Edit (upper right) > and Enable "Enhanced" Chechbox > Save

Edited December 6, 2023 by Jimehc

[Obejohnknobe]

Jim,

Thank you, I did not know the selection enhanced and speed was was available in the CP in the network tab.  I also found the issue of conflict which was in the whole house Groups and  Groups not being used with the 16 channel residential controller.   I deselected the residential controller for the whole house groups as well as the other groups not used and things started to work.  Also deleted a couple of groups not being used which also had the 16 channel controller in them so there is no more conflict.

After I do a test this morning , will try to put the 16 channel controller in as it worked with whole house group before.  Trial and error.....  Thanks to Steven, k6ccc, Box on rails for the assistance.  Really appreciate the help!!!

John

 

 

[Tim Fischer]

I don't quite understand this limitation. I ended up moving my whole network to DMX this year as I have many G1 LOR controllers that don't support ELOR. They work just fine on E1.31 with the motion effects It's not like I'm doing anything terribly complicated... just fading back and forth etc. I can't imagine that wouldn't have worked fine on the old LOR network. But oh well... I'm converted now and it actually saves me some wiring hassle as I used ot run a separate DMX network anyway.

[Obejohnknobe]

I found more issues with my spinners when they were on the same ID.  Do not know if they were the cause of the problem but was able to put my 16 channel controller back on and it works fine now.  It appears, I am the culprit of causing these problems.  My display was  over hauled this year, going from 2 networks to 4 networks.  I had too many cards on 2 networks causing lag on some of the props.  Now with the 4 networks it has no lags.  I did purchase a pixielink sANC adapter this year for next year to convert from the MP3 Director 4 port network to 6 ports.   Hopefully, it will make life easier for me.  Just have not tried the E1.31 or DMX but it is on my bucket list.

John

[Steven]

43 minutes ago, Tim Fischer said:

I don't quite understand this limitation. I ended up moving my whole network to DMX this year as I have many G1 LOR controllers that don't support ELOR. They work just fine on E1.31 with the motion effects It's not like I'm doing anything terribly complicated... just fading back and forth etc. I can't imagine that wouldn't have worked fine on the old LOR network. But oh well... I'm converted now and it actually saves me some wiring hassle as I used ot run a separate DMX network anyway.

The show player simply won't play motion effects to a non-enhanced (i.e. legacy) LOR network. I suspect that's because a motion effect is prepared (compiled) into what was called an intensity file in S4, which is the list of each intensity for each channel for every (small) time period. A non-enhanced network doesn't have enough bandwidth to play an intensity stream like this. The non-enhanced LOR protocol is designed to optimize bandwidth (which is what allows it to use telephone cord) by putting intelligence into the controllers so they can be sent a single "fade down over the next 5 seconds" event, where a DMX (or probably ELOR) network must be sent every intensity over that 5 second period.

Switching a network of G1 LOR controllers to DMX is a solution, but it comes with 2 significant limitations that would prevent me from using it in my show:

1. DMX won't work through an ELL, and 3 houses in my display are on the other side of the street; and
2. The shimmer effect looks much better on an LOR network compared to a DMX network, and I use a lot of shimmer.

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, Tim Fischer said:

I don't quite understand this limitation.

It's a function of how the data gets generated and transmitted.

1 hour ago, Tim Fischer said:

I ended up moving my whole network to DMX this year as I have many G1 LOR controllers that don't support ELOR. They work just fine on E1.31 with the motion effects It's not like I'm doing anything terribly complicated...

Remember that with DMX (or E1.31) the control protocol is very dumb.  All DMX knows how to do is "Channel xxx go to zzz level".  This has to be repeated about 45 times per second.  That requires a very different set of processing on the show computer to generate the data stream.

 

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, Obejohnknobe said:

I did purchase a pixielink sANC adapter this year for next year to convert from the MP3 Director 4 port network to 6 ports. 

If I read that right, you are currently using a Director to control your show, and next year will be adding a PixieLink.  None of the Directors can send E1.31, so you MUST use a show computer rather than the Director if you are going to use E1.31.

 

[Obejohnknobe]

Agreed, I am making progress to go that way where I can use my home computer for the show and get away from the director.

John

[Tim Fischer]

1 hour ago, k6ccc said:

Remember that with DMX (or E1.31) the control protocol is very dumb.  All DMX knows how to do is "Channel xxx go to zzz level".  This has to be repeated about 45 times per second.  That requires a very different set of processing on the show computer to generate the data stream.

I've been using DMX in my show since something like 2011. In fact I had places where I ran DMX cables right alongside LOR network cables. If it wasn't for the mismatched pinouts on the LOR controllers I would have converted long ago to keep the wiring neater. For this year I ended up making an adapter that allows me to stick to the 'standard' DMX-over-RJ45 standard of pins 1&2 for my network and it converts to pins 4 & 5 at each controller. It's been working great.

I didn't even have to add any new universes to get my LOR boxes online since I had plenty of space in my existing DMX universes.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Tim Fischer

[Tim Fischer]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

The show player simply won't play motion effects to a non-enhanced (i.e. legacy) LOR network. I suspect that's because a motion effect is prepared (compiled) into what was called an intensity file in S4, which is the list of each intensity for each channel for every (small) time period. A non-enhanced network doesn't have enough bandwidth to play an intensity stream like this. The non-enhanced LOR protocol is designed to optimize bandwidth (which is what allows it to use telephone cord) by putting intelligence into the controllers so they can be sent a single "fade down over the next 5 seconds" event, where a DMX (or probably ELOR) network must be sent every intensity over that 5 second period.

Switching a network of G1 LOR controllers to DMX is a solution, but it comes with 2 significant limitations that would prevent me from using it in my show:

1. DMX won't work through an ELL, and 3 houses in my display are on the other side of the street; and
2. The shimmer effect looks much better on an LOR network compared to a DMX network, and I use a lot of shimmer.

This all makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I kind of wondered if it had more to do with the protocol than the hardware itself.

I don't use ELLS, and use shimmer very sparingly, so it's been a good trade-off for me. I have 12 "North Poles" at the front of my display that are DMX/RJ45. Interspersed with those are arches and mini trees on LOR boxes. For over a decade I've run two separate networks (DMX and LOR) along that front line. Now I can consolidate it all. I also have a number of other DMX devices around the yard so it's helped me run a little bit less wire this year.  

But honestly I probably wouldn't have messed with switching if it weren't for motion effect availability. I was majorly bummed when I found out I couldn't use motion effects on my hardware. And replacing all my controllers at once just for this isn't a viable financial option.

[Steven]

14 hours ago, Tim Fischer said:

For over a decade I've run two separate networks (DMX and LOR) along that front line. Now I can consolidate it all. I also have a number of other DMX devices around the yard so it's helped me run a little bit less wire this year. 

If it wasn't for the motion effects, I would have suggested that you run LOR and DMX on the same cable. LOR uses pins 3,4,5,6, and DMX uses pins 1,2,7. Most G1 controllers pass all the pins, including 1,2,7,8 straight through. I've been using pins 1&2 for speakers (with an 8Ω to 200Ω transformer at both ends) for 17 years.

[Tim Fischer]

4 hours ago, Steven said:

If it wasn't for the motion effects, I would have suggested that you run LOR and DMX on the same cable. LOR uses pins 3,4,5,6, and DMX uses pins 1,2,7. Most G1 controllers pass all the pins, including 1,2,7,8 straight through. I've been using pins 1&2 for speakers (with an 8Ω to 200Ω transformer at both ends) for 17 years.

I have some props (my North Poles) that use all the other wires for power (so pins 1&2 for DMX, all the others for +/- 12VDC). Else I may have considered that along the way.

 

[Tim Fischer]

20 hours ago, Steven said:

The show player simply won't play motion effects to a non-enhanced (i.e. legacy) LOR network. I suspect that's because a motion effect is prepared (compiled) into what was called an intensity file in S4, which is the list of each intensity for each channel for every (small) time period. 

I somehow missed this whole iteration of the LOR evolution. I used S4 for several seasons, but I did not use the Pixel Editor, having generated my pixel effects with xLights back then and copying them back into LOR sequences. I also never used the Visualizer or Superstar... so I was kind of fundamentally stuck back on s3 technologically lol.

I was reading up on it last night and LOR has done a very nice job of blending this into the S5/S6 sequence editor.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Tim Fischer