ID versus Net versus Pixie Cards

[Obejohnknobe]

Greetings everyone!

Hope you are having a fantastic week and wish every father "Happy Father's Day" this Sunday.

Scenario: Halloween props, I have 8 black cats on a Pixie 8 (5vdc and IDs are maxed out) and the wife and kids made mention we need to have a 9th cat in the display.... you know 9 lives.  Without restructuring all of my cards to a Pixie 16, reprogramming, and changing a lot of IDs, came up with a solution but need to verify it will work theoretically before I attempt to try it out physically.

The cats are located next to the Tune To sign on a Pixie 4 with only 2 IDs taken up (2 spare ID slots).  The question would be, can the 9th cat be put on the 3rd ID slot on the Pixie 4 and work properly?  Add in the display is wired with Cat 5 cable to a MP3 Director with 4 nets.  The Tune To sign is assigned to the Regular net while the cats are assigned to Net 3 or Aux B Net.  As long as I keep the 9th cat on the same net as the Tune To sign it should work?

Thank you,

John

[Jimehc]

Correct in all points...

 

[TheDucks]

All on the same card is a convenience (or not).

One of the reasons I left gaps when assigning ID's for my Pixies, is it leaves room to swap in a bigger Pixie without having to change existing sequences (except to ADD the new stuff)

eg Pixie4 ID 30, Pixie4 ID 38. All of a sudden Pixie4 ID30  needs another port. Simply swap it for a Pixie8 set to ID30  (and remember that the old Pixie needs an unused ID

OK, another IDEA. Pixies have settings that affect the whole card (eg resolution). This is a case where 2 @ pixie4 might be a better choice if you do need differences.

Depending on your PSU size (and port LOADING), you might be able to keep it as is. calculate your port loads (white is worse case)

[Obejohnknobe]

TheDucks,

Thanks for the info!  If I were to put gaps in the IDs on my display, the software IDs would be close to maxed out.  Unless there is something I do not know how to expand the IDs in the software.  I have thought about the Pixiecon16 (instead of the Pixie 4,8,16) but am unsure how to use it.

Also, does putting the 9th cat on a different Net than the other 8 cats affect anything?  Note, the Pixie 4 sign has different number of pixels for each of the 2 slots, ID 3D has 65 pixels for Tune To and ID 3E 88.7 has 72 pixels.  The cat has 75 Pixels so there would not be much voltage difference between the 3 IDs on the Pixie4.

Thank you,

John

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, Obejohnknobe said:

If I were to put gaps in the IDs on my display, the software IDs would be close to maxed out.  Unless there is something I do not know how to expand the IDs in the software.

You are limited to 240 IDs per LOR network.  Especially with pixels, I would be highly surprised that you have 240 IDs in use on a single LOR network!  Remember that Regular network Unit ID 11 has no relation to Aux A network Unit ID 11, and Aux B network Unit ID 11, etc.  Yes, it's convenient for us human beings, but you CAN use the same Unit ID on different networks.

 

[TheDucks]

Jim's advice is spot on KISS unless there is a pressing reason. It is a lot easier to spot ID 29 being on a wrong network if there is only one 29

How can you even be close to maxing out ID's using a N4G3?

My grouping: 0x Dumb controllers, 1x, 2x,3x, 4x Pixies (and there are gaps in most. No pixie16)  (my densest controller is 2 @ CMB24 and a pixie4 for my  megatree which started out as 9 AC strands and a AC star) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XssqectruJzV7RgB6YgUAjyPWDy9K_IY/view?usp=drive_link

Edited June 16, 2023 by TheDucks

[Obejohnknobe]

Thanks everyone!!

Shows you how much I know about networks!  I did not know you can have 2 of the same IDs on different networks.  My thinking was splitting the Pixies cards IDs on different networks did not bog the show down (too much data on 1 network).  Using the same IDs on different networks seems strange to me.

If I get this correct, if I use, let say, a Pixie 8 using all 8 IDs starting with Hex 29 on network Aux A and use another Pixie 8 using all 8 IDs with the same Hex 29 ID, but on Network Aux B, both Pixie 8 would operate as separate entities???  If this is the case, how does the software know which Hex ID goes where?  Prop definition?

Feeling like I am starting back to school again.....

Thank you!!

John

[Jimehc]

think of a network as the (street) and the unit ID as the (number) - so same number, different street

Edited June 17, 2023 by Jimehc

[Obejohnknobe]

That makes sense to me, I think.  In this case, with the MP3 Director, 4 different streets (Maple, Elm, Oak, Main) all with the same mailbox number 110.  Equals 4 different addresses?  Correct?

If this is the case, then I can have 4 - Pixie8 cards with the same Hex ID but on different networks (Reg, Aux A, Aux B, Aux C).  That would equal 4 different addresses? Correct?

Thank you,

John

[k6ccc]

You've got it

 

[Obejohnknobe]

Jim and everyone else,

It just takes me more time to understand and want to make sure am doing it correctly and efficiently.  Spent the morning restructuring the layout, updating the IDs and seems easier to use.

Last question for a while.................................

Before using almost every ID LOR software had in sequence, was using only 1 network (Older MP3 Director).  Had some props not keeping up with where the timing in the songs.  I noticed it, but someone who might not know, it would look OK to them.  Changed out to newer MP3 Director with 4 networks, problems with timings of song seems to be in sync.  Even though the update to newer MP3 Director with 4 networks, did not change the IDs, just the networks trying to keep 4 to 5 cards per network.

Since the new information some of you provided, restructured the layout, changed all IDs to no more than 40 IDs per network and not spread out.  Need to reprogram the cards next.

Question........ With the IDs so spread out, but using 4 networks, could that still affect the timing?

Using the mailing system as an analogy, my thinking is when using 4 networks with the IDs spread out, it gives the appearance of delivering mail in a rural community.  Even though the address has the same mail box number but different road/streets, it takes a lot of time to deliver but is delivered in a timely manner.  Switch to the town where the streets are closer, it takes less time to deliver the mail.

Am I on the right track in understanding timing??

Thanks!

John

[TheDucks]

Staying with the Post Office

The controller Is the Post Office and has lots more speed and capacity to sort the mail

Each PORT is a different Postal Carrier. They all start their shift at the same time, drive the same slower speed, but the mail gets delivered on tome as long as yo do not have too manny addresses on the route

[Obejohnknobe]

Thank you!!!  That really makes sense with that analogy!!! 

Appreciate all everyone has contribute to get me to understand this!

 

Much obliged,

John

[Steven]

On 6/16/2023 at 4:45 PM, TheDucks said:

 It is a lot easier to spot ID 29 being on a wrong network if there is only one 29

That is not my experience. If I have ID 29 on the Regular network, and add a new ID 29 on Aux A, if I put a new prop on the new controller but accidentally select "Regular", the Preview editor warns me with a "Channel Error (conflict)" yellow triangle. If the controller on the Regular network was a different ID, then I wouldn't notice.

Albeit, my display is spread over 6 houses on both sides of the street, so the closest the different networks get (outside) is about 30 feet.

[TheDucks]

8 hours ago, Steven said:

That is not my experience. If I have ID 29 on the Regular network, and add a new ID 29 on Aux A, if I put a new prop on the new controller but accidentally select "Regular", the Preview editor warns me with a "Channel Error (conflict)" yellow triangle. If the controller on the Regular network was a different ID, then I wouldn't notice.

Albeit, my display is spread over 6 houses on both sides of the street, so the closest the different networks get (outside) is about 30 feet.

Spot refers to looking at the code (channel chart) and not a 'wrong light' on the wrong house.