Adding a controller to existing lights in a Preview?

[TallDude]

Hey folks! Just getting started with LoR.

Can I build a preview, adding light strings and the like, and after the fact add a controller and assign the lights to the different channels? I am not seeing an easy way to do this, but seems like something that should be doable. I was following a tutorial for traditional christmas lights and they didn't add a controller, so now I have a nice design but don't want to have to redo it all. Or if I can do it in the Sequencer, either way.

Many thanks!

Edited December 17, 2022 by TallDude

[dgrant]

You can easily create a new preview any way you wish with whatever controllers you desire. Once you obtain the controllers, then you can make changes to the previews. BUT, there's always a "BUT", it implies that whatever sequencing you do for a particular type of controller, AC strings, RGB Intelligent Nodes or Dumb RGB nodes, each use different controllers therefore their sequencing is probably going to be different. Now if you were just reassigning ID's or Universes, yes and easy within the preview. Look at the preview as sort of a master hardware location. It binds the item description in the list of available items with the hardware assignment.

[k6ccc]

As dgrant said, you can create a new preview - or you can edit the existing preview.  Your choice.  In either case, you simply add either a device (controller) or props.  I prefer to add props.

 

[TallDude]

31 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

As dgrant said, you can create a new preview - or you can edit the existing preview.  Your choice.  In either case, you simply add either a device (controller) or props.  I prefer to add props.

 

Maybe I need to clarify further. I already have added props to a preview, a bunch of light strings. After the fact, I realize I need to add a controller and have it control said strings. Is there a way to do that without having to remake the entire preview, i.e. starting all over again? I can add a controller, but in the preview it shows the channels as icons (stars by default) rather than converting to the strands, even after I select the strand and tell it to be controlled by the same channel.

[k6ccc]

One of my reasons for preferring to add props - not controllers.

Yes, you can modify an existing channel but I stand by my statement that it just works better to add props and then assign channels to them rather than the other way around.

 

[TallDude]

20 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

One of my reasons for preferring to add props - not controllers.

Yes, you can modify an existing channel but I stand by my statement that it just works better to add props and then assign channels to them rather than the other way around.

 

So I don't need to actually assign them to a controller, just give them a channel number? I am running shows with several controllers, is it as simple as setting the control address (I don't have it in front of me so not sure of the name) to 02 05 to be ran by a controller on Address 02 and Channel 05? If so, that simplifies things significantly!

[k6ccc]

Correct.  When you build a prop, one of the things you do is to assign channels to it.  For example, here is a single channel prop in my review.  BTW, this really is fans (and in air blowers) so the color is of course bogus.  On the right, you can see that this "fans" channel is assigned to AuxA, Unit 13, Channel 16.  If your browser does not show the image below, there is a link directly to it.

http://www.newburghlights.org/images/Fans_Preview_Prop_Definition.png

[k6ccc]

And a more involved prop.  This is a 270 pixel nested star with six rings.  BTW, this is not mine.

http://www.newburghlights.org/images/jg2770_star.png

[randyf]

As most have been saying, previews changes the way controllers/lights are configured from S4 forward: don't add a controller and determine the prop to use, add the prop and assign a channel.

In my recent conversion from S4 to S6, I had "placeholders" for unused channels so as to not mess up the ability to have them in the grid view later when I found a way *to* use them.  There was a fair amount of sequence clean-up during the transition due to this.  Now if I want to add some new prop, as Jim suggest: add the prop and then assign a channel.  The only issue or feature request I might make is an easy way to see what channels in the set of controllers are available.

[k6ccc]

3 minutes ago, randyf said:

The only issue or feature request I might make is an easy way to see what channels in the set of controllers are available.

You can sort of do that from the String Summary in Preview Editor, but it's not automatic.  Personally I have an Excel spreadsheet of my channel assignments.  Much easier to see stuff that way.  And if you don't know it, you can go to the String Summary, select any box, press [CTRL-A] to select all, then [CTRL-C] to copy it all, then open a blank Excel spreadsheet, select cell A1 and press [CTRL-V] to paste your entire string summary into the spreadsheet.  Then you can manipulate it far easier than in the String Summary.

 

[randyf]

4 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

You can sort of do that from the String Summary in Preview Editor, but it's not automatic.  Personally I have an Excel spreadsheet of my channel assignments.  Much easier to see stuff that way.  And if you don't know it, you can go to the String Summary, select any box, press [CTRL-A] to select all, then [CTRL-C] to copy it all, then open a blank Excel spreadsheet, select cell A1 and press [CTRL-V] to paste your entire string summary into the spreadsheet.  Then you can manipulate it far easier than in the String Summary.

 

I've mostly done similar, just not Excel (extracted the summary from the S4 before conversion to ensure things went as expected), so I'm not at a disadvantage.

I still think it would be nice for a "list unused channels" button somewhere.

[k6ccc]

2 minutes ago, randyf said:

I still think it would be nice for a "list unused channels" button somewhere.

Note that if you build props and assign channels to them and not build controllers and assign props to them, you would not have any unassigned channels to list.  However if you do have unassigned channels, you could always use a consistent naming structure for example "Unused Reg 07 14" then you could sort by prop and they would all be together.  Unfortunately at least in 5.6.10, the sort by Prop name does not work right.  I will go back to S6 after the Christmas season (I had to downgrade to S5 in order to run MIIP).  The file server (which runs the year round landscape lighting) still has S6 loaded.

 

[dgrant]

I use Excel too for my controllers/channels. That way, when I assign a prop to a device/channel, I know what I set it too and then alter the preview to match. Once its done, I change the color in the Excel's cell location. All are assigned a color based on not being assigned to anything, then alter the colors as they are assigned. Actually I take it a couple of step farther in that once assigned, its ready to be sequenced. Once done, different color then its waiting to be tested. Once that it done, last color change in that it's ready to go. It gives me a quick and simple way of looking at things in the build stages. Plus during the shows, if I have a failure, I can instantly change the Excel sheet's cell again to Red so it stands out and the next day, I'm investigating. Once fixed, its back to the normal ready to use color.

[hasslerk]

Ditto on the excel for tracking used and unused channels.  It is also where I get my actual light count from, as for many props I just use "flood" with 1 light to represent something like a wire-frame deer that actually has 210 lights, or my shrubs being modeled in preview as having 25 multi-color string lights each but actually have 100's each.

[k6ccc]

25 minutes ago, hasslerk said:

as for many props I just use "flood" with 1 light to represent something like a wire-frame deer that actually has 210 lights, or my shrubs being modeled in preview as having 25 multi-color string lights each but actually have 100's each.

One of my standard statements.  There is very little reason that requires that the layout in the Preview match the actual layout.  The channel assignments matching is critical, but if you know that a light blob on your preview is really 100 lights on  bush, you are good to go.

 

[TallDude]

On 12/18/2022 at 11:28 AM, randyf said:

As most have been saying, previews changes the way controllers/lights are configured from S4 forward: don't add a controller and determine the prop to use, add the prop and assign a channel.

In my recent conversion from S4 to S6, I had "placeholders" for unused channels so as to not mess up the ability to have them in the grid view later when I found a way *to* use them.  There was a fair amount of sequence clean-up during the transition due to this.  Now if I want to add some new prop, as Jim suggest: add the prop and then assign a channel.  The only issue or feature request I might make is an easy way to see what channels in the set of controllers are available.

That makes sense, thanks!

So, I want to just clarify that I am getting this right, so I can show my boss what I am doing (just got back from my weekend so catching up on replies):
Prop Definition, under the Channels box, I set "Start Unit ID" to the Channel I am connecting the lights, then "Start Circuit" is the ID of said controller. 
Is that correct? I am working on a show that has 5 different controllers networked together, each with 16 channels, so wanting to make sure I have that right.

Is there anything different I need to do with Pixel RGB lights as opposed to single light strings?

Also, Thank you to everyone else that has given replies! I got back into work with a swarth of useful information!

Edited December 20, 2022 by TallDude

[k6ccc]

2 hours ago, TallDude said:

Prop Definition, under the Channels box, I set "Start Unit ID" to the Channel I am connecting the lights, then "Start Circuit" is the ID of said controller. 
Is that correct?

You have that backwards.  Start Unit ID is the controller Unit ID, and Start Circuit is the first channel for that prop.  There is also a setting for which network to use.

 

[TallDude]

21 hours ago, k6ccc said:

You have that backwards.  Start Unit ID is the controller Unit ID, and Start Circuit is the first channel for that prop.  There is also a setting for which network to use.

 

Alright, did that, but seems to be acting slightly differently, but I am now testing with RGB lights as that's what I have access to. I am testing with a Pixie 2, so 2 channels. I have a 50 GRB light string on each channel. I created 2 props, 50 RGB lights. The controller Unit ID is 23.

                           Start Unit ID | Start Circuit |End Unit ID| End Circuit      
Channel 1 Prop: 23                 | 1                    | 23             | 150

Channel 2 Prop: 24                 | 1                    | 24             | 150

Are you saying that the Start Unit ID should be 23 for both props? Or is that the nomenclature for doing normal single color light strands? I am unable to make the RGB lights would with the same Start Unit ID when connected to different channels.
 

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, TallDude said:

Are you saying that the Start Unit ID should be 23 for both props?

No.  Each port on a Pixie controller is a separate Unit ID.  You assign the Unit ID for the first port either with DIP switches or via the Hardware Utility.  The remaining ports auto assign the Unit IDs counting sequentially from the first ID (counting in Hex).

1 hour ago, TallDude said:

I am testing with a Pixie 2, so 2 channels.

No.   You are testing with two output ports on the Pixie controller.  You can call them "output ports" or just "ports" or "outputs", but they are not "channels".  Each port will have MANY channels.  Calling each output port of a pixel controller a "channel" only causes confusion.  Experienced users will understand what you mean, but especially new pixels users can be confused by the error.

Lastly, I would HIGHLY recommend giving those props some useful names.  Naming it something like "Arch 1" or in a testing case "Test string 1" makes far more sense than "Channel 1 prop" - remember the above, it's not a "channel".  Not a big deal when you only have two strings, but when your show grows (they always grow), you will be glad that you organized it.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by k6ccc

[TallDude]

The Prop Name was purely for example, I am indeed giving them appropriate names for what they are (except for when I have them on the bench for testing, then it's "Left Side Tangle" and "Right Side Tangle"). And thank you for clarifying the nomenclature, I'll make sure to use the correct terms to avoid confusion. Port port port.