Prop turns off unexpectedly.

[bdwillie]

I have an animated sequence that runs in the animation tab.  It is just a 1 minute sequence with loops to make it 3 minutes total time.  It's sole purpose is to light the nativities in the yard.  no fades, no flash, just steady on 100%. The turn used lights off at the end of each sequence IS NOT checked.  It has it's own preview (aptly named Nativity) of just the three channels needed in the yard for this purpose.  I works great throughout the whole show EXCEPT for ONE musical sequence.  One of the three channels will shut off for approximately 1 minute and then relight in the middle of that one sequence.  It is repeatable too, and always the same channel (controller 8 channel 15).

1.  I have verified all sequences in the main tab, including the sequence in question use the appropriate preview (named The Yard)

2. I have verified that the preview The Yard has no instance of controller 8 channel 15 using the string summary.

3. I have checked in the musical sequence that makes the channel drop to make sure there are no archived props.

4.  There are no channel conflicts listed in the previews for either of the two previews.

What else can I check?  

If I can't find it, will just run it the way it is.  No one will know it's not supposed to turn off but me and the wife, and maybe now you guys😁.  Coincidently, the sequence in question is also the last sequence that was finished up this year. 

BTW!  Am loving the android app for 6.  It crashes occasionally if I use it for a long time, but logs right back in when restarted.  Made prop testing in the yard a breeze this year during setup!

[Steven]

This sounds like a subtle glitch (bug) in which the musical sequence in question generates just the right pattern such that the controller thinks it's an OFF event for channel 15, when it's really something else. The channel will turn back on when the animation sequence loops.

If you can reproduce this, Light-O-Rama may also be able to reproduce it and thus fix it. Here's how to diagnose it:

Did you notice that you can test lights through the control panel and play a sequence (controlling lights) at the same time in S6? This can help you here. Bring up the musical sequence that causes the problem in the sequence editor. Make sure you can play it and it controls lights. Then, with the sequence editor still up, go to the test lights tab and turn channel 8.15 on. Then play the sequence in the sequence editor. Does this reproduce the problem where the channel turns off? If so, find the area is the sequence where it happens and see if you can make a small test sequence from that that causes the problem.

[bdwillie]

After checking everything I could think to check, I just pressed on.  Today I added the tune to and parking signs and their lights.  they are on two separate controllers than the one in question, and on a different animation sequence.  so on tonight's run through not only did I loose the nativity on controller 8 channel 15, a few seconds later I lost the tune to and parking signs on controller 7 channel 16, and controller 3 channel 16.  I was probably loosing them initially, but just didn't have anything hooked to those channels yet so I didn't see it.

So two of my three animation sequences are acting up.  The third sequence runs a small tree farm sign, dmx 8 channel (channel per letter) that simulates an old neon sign.  That sequence has been rock solid and has not hiccupped once.

I checked the player logs.  as the show starts, all three of these sequences get a call out to start.  further down I see where the 3rd sequence (the tree farm) ends and restarts.  This occurs several times through out a single running of the show as it should.  At no time is there an end and restart of the other two sequences.  The tree farm sequence does not have any loops, whereas the other two that are acting up do.  I am wondering if the loops in the sequence are somehow hanging them up.

I just removed the loops from the two that are acting up and will rerun again tomorrow night and keep ya posted

[bdwillie]

7 minutes ago, Steven said:

This sounds like a subtle glitch (bug) in which the musical sequence in question generates just the right pattern such that the controller thinks it's an OFF event for channel 15, when it's really something else. The channel will turn back on when the animation sequence loops.

If you can reproduce this, Light-O-Rama may also be able to reproduce it and thus fix it. Here's how to diagnose it:

 

Steven, you posted this while I was typing my second post.  I am wondering if the loops in the sequences in question are causing the headache.  I have removed the loops and will retest tomorrow.  If I still have the problem I will do as you suggest!  Thanks! I appreciate it!

 

[bdwillie]

Removing the loops caused the problem to shift from having the channels drop out during the main sequence in question, to two of the animations just not turning on when the show first starts up until the second go round of the animation sequences.  Once again the animation of the tree farm sign was rock solid the entire time and was the only one to work correctly of the three.   I took a shot in the dark and created a completely different animated sequence and combining the three animated sequences into one sequence.  Deleted the three previews that were specific to those three animations, created one new preview for the combined items.  Double checked once again that the new preview DID NOT have any controller channels listed in the main sequences preview.  Removed the three animation sequences from the animation tab, and added the new combined one.   As of right now the problem seems to be cured.  I am beginning to wonder if this old slow dinosaur computer just couldn't keep up with 3 animations and the main running at the same time.  Either way this seems to be fixed now. 

Just for information the three animations controlled,

1: A tree farm sign, on a DMX network, 8 RGB channels,

2: Tune to and parking signs channels 3/16 and 7/16, 

3: the yard nativities and angels channels 8/15, 1/16, 10/12. 

The last two were on my regular LOR network, enhanced 500K.  Just those 5 channels gave us the fits!

Edited November 21, 2022 by bdwillie

[TheDucks]

BD are you using a Black adapter you got back when you joined here? Pushing that to 500K is iffy.

The newer HS adapters were Red, (but the store page makes me think they are now Black. Be sure to mark those as soon as you get them)

[bdwillie]

5 hours ago, TheDucks said:

BD are you using a Black adapter you got back when you joined here? Pushing that to 500K is iffy.

The newer HS adapters were Red, (but the store page makes me think they are now Black. Be sure to mark those as soon as you get them)

Red high speed adapter.  About to post again.

 

[dgrant]

I'm going to suggest looking at a couple of things. First, at the very end of the looping sequence, is that last timing block on or off for the problem lights? Next, in the create shows, for the animation tab, is the ox checked to turn off the lights at the end of the sequence? In your case, it should NOT be checked. Lastly, in the previews, in your main show preview, is the Nativity channel present in there? If it is, you are possibly sending commands to that prop to turn off while the animation sequence is turning it on, so you might wish to remove it from that sequence. I found back in S4 that if a regular musical sequence commands a background/animation prop, on or off, it will take precedence over the background/animation sequence.

[bdwillie]

1 hour ago, dgrant said:

I'm going to suggest looking at a couple of things. First, at the very end of the looping sequence, is that last timing block on or off for the problem lights? Next, in the create shows, for the animation tab, is the ox checked to turn off the lights at the end of the sequence? In your case, it should NOT be checked. Lastly, in the previews, in your main show preview, is the Nativity channel present in there? If it is, you are possibly sending commands to that prop to turn off while the animation sequence is turning it on, so you might wish to remove it from that sequence. I found back in S4 that if a regular musical sequence commands a background/animation prop, on or off, it will take precedence over the background/animation sequence.

Dgrant,  last timing block off, no   box checked to turn off lights, no   nativity channel in main preview, no.  I had a whole big update with more problems typed up last night but somehow lost it before hitting post.  going to do that now.  Also just quadruple checked what you have asked just so I didn't miss it when tired.  will go and retype more info.

 

[bdwillie]

Still more problems.   Sorry this is so long but wanted to make sure I got everything that is happening and what I have tried.

Please note these animations worked correctly in S5 with a different show computer last year and there were no changes to the animations for this year before troubleshooting started.

These 3 animation sequences of which now 2 I am having issues with are the same exact animation sequences, with NO changes other than moving from S5 to S6, that worked perfect in the animation tab last year. The main musical sequences are using the SAME preview as last year with the addition of one controller which is controller #11.  All items in all sequences in the musical tab work correctly for the entire 35 minute show.  The three animation sequences are, a tree farm sign, DMX 8 channel, with it's own preview.  Rock solid no issues, the nativities which consist of channels 8/15 1/16 and 10/12, which have a preview names nativity.  these three channels have been quadruple checked to make sure they are not in the main preview, and tune to and parking which have channels 3/16 and 7/16, also have been quadruple checked to make sure they are not in the main preview.  

Main network. Red adapter, enhanced network 500K 11 LOR controllers of which 10 are G3,V5 AC all with firmware 1.11, and 1 Pixie 4 with approx 88 pixels on it.  

Secondary network 1 DMX universe, running all dumb RGB props, only about 1 third of universe used.

If you have been reading along above I was going to remove the loops in the animations thinking something with loops and S6 didn't play nice.  so all three animations are now just 2 minutes long.  That didn't help.  So I tried combining the three.  Created a whole new preview named background, and a completely new animation with the same name..  Triple checked my spreadsheet for channel assignments.  even deleted the old previews.

I have also checked each sequence in the main tab to make sure there are no archived props in them just in case that made them wonky.

Ran the show, show on demand by phone app.  Everything started normally, (which actually was an issue after removing the loops.  one channel didn't start until the second cycle of the tune to parking sequence after removing the loops way back in the troubleshooting).  I thought I had it licked with the combining of the three animations. 

Unfortunately about 15 minutes in I lost one channel of the nativity again, 8/15, for about 1 minute and it returned. No flicker, no fade, just off, and just on when returned.  After that it came and went 2 more times before the end of the show.  This is also at a different time in the main sequence that we usually lost it.  A few minutes after that I lost both tune to parking channels, 3/16 and 7/16.  3/16 returned approx 5 minutes later, but 7/16 didn't return until the last 30 seconds of the last song in the show, making it out for at least 14-15 minutes before returning.  

I am at a loss as to what to do now.  I can turn on these channels with the phone app and control panel and the come on and stay on.  I don't think its a data line issue as the rest of the show is running perfect, and these controllers are smack dab in the middle of the data cable run with rock solid link lights on the controllers.  I don't think I have a channel on three different controllers failing at the same time as I can manually turn them on and leave them on with no issues, and they don't drop off.

I don't want to revert back to S5 but I might just to see if that returns them to normal.  In a last ditch effort I have exported my previews, dumped the animations, and added the channels for tune to and the nativities to the main preview, and added them to each item in the musical tab (I was up REAL late last night).  I will run it today and see if that will keep them on.  Not ideal but at least hopefully it will work until I can figure out what is happening with these animations. 

Any ideas? I am stumped!

[dgrant]

If I was you, I'd create a support ticket with LOR. They have the ability, with your permission, to log into your computer via special software they will direct you how to launch. That will allow them access to your machine while you watch, while talking with them on the phone. One of the programmers like Matt Brown might be able to easily spot the issue. You might try sending him a PM to user, MattBrown

[bdwillie]

2 hours ago, dgrant said:

If I was you, I'd create a support ticket with LOR. 

Mr. D,  will probably do that soon, but for now I have a work around. will post results.

[bdwillie]

Results of the latest try.

Copied and renamed the preview that the main musicals used.  Added the parking, tune to, and nativities in as a group.  loaded, each musical sequence, assigned the new preview, reset the displayed props and groups, added 100% on from beginning to end of each musical for the group and resaved.  Removed everything but the tree farm from the animation tab. saved show by another name.  uploaded all to the show computer in the shed.  Just did a run through, neighbors probably wonder why I was watching my lights, in a drizzle, in the middle of the day.  With this set up I did not loose anything the entire run of the show.

Makes me feel better at least that the controllers aren't spazzing on specific channels, or I don't have a random data line problem!  I will probably leave as is for now since the lights go on in two days for the season, and will jump back into trying to fix this after Christmas.

Something for sure does not like those two animation sequences in S6, or my show computer is too old to handle three animations with the main going on.

Thanks to Steven, Theducks, and Dgrant for the suggestions!  I appreciate it you guys!

In the immortal words of Clark Griswold, HOLY S**T Where's the Tylenol!

 

[Richard Hamilton]

On 11/22/2022 at 10:31 AM, bdwillie said:

or my show computer is too old to handle three animations with the main going on.

I'm going to guess that is not the issue.  Only reason I say that is I am using a VERY OLD 2005 PC running Win 7 with a fairly complicated display of 14 controllers and pixie stuff on S6 and all works well

[TheDucks]

1 hour ago, Richard Hamilton said:

I'm going to guess that is not the issue.  Only reason I say that is I am using a VERY OLD 2005 PC running Win 7 with a fairly complicated display of 14 controllers and pixie stuff on S6 and all works well

Do tame your security suite. (Exclude LOR related folders).  Old computers also seem to get loaded down with 'helper apps' (not all asked permission to install or tricked you)

Running a show is more I/O intensive. Avoid using a USB drive to host your show as the USB is also going to be sending all those commands to the controllers.

[bdwillie]

5 hours ago, Richard Hamilton said:

I'm going to guess that is not the issue.  Only reason I say that is I am using a VERY OLD 2005 PC running Win 7 with a fairly complicated display of 14 controllers and pixie stuff on S6 and all works well

That's good to know!  I was thinking of dragging my sequencing computer out to the shed to see if that helped, now I don't think I will!

[bdwillie]

4 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Do tame your security suite. (Exclude LOR related folders).  Old computers also seem to get loaded down with 'helper apps' (not all asked permission to install or tricked you)

Running a show is more I/O intensive. Avoid using a USB drive to host your show as the USB is also going to be sending all those commands to the controllers.

Antivirus is only defender, will look tomorrow to see if I can exclude anything in defender.  This is only used for the light show.  It has LOR, an old copy of office so I can see the channel lineup spreadsheet, WHS2011 connector to get to the server, and team viewer. That's pretty much it.  I have made sure that the server backup time is 2:00  a.m. so it isn't doing that during the show.

All show files are on the local hard drive, and I do believe it is an SSD if I remember right.

[TheDucks]

5 minutes ago, bdwillie said:

Antivirus is only defender, will look tomorrow to see if I can exclude anything in defender.  This is only used for the light show.  It has LOR, an old copy of office so I can see the channel lineup spreadsheet, WHS2011 connector to get to the server, and team viewer. That's pretty much it.  I have made sure that the server backup time is 2:00  a.m. so it isn't doing that during the show.

All show files are on the local hard drive, and I do believe it is an SSD if I remember right.

Defender has Exclusions. SSD is even better, but not needed. The main reason is to reduce additional USB controller traffic.

[Richard Hamilton]

BdWillie,  when I read your first post a couple days ago, something sounded strangely familiar about it from a few years ago.   Now that I think about it, my memory got better.  This may not be your problem, but it was in my case where everything worked well except one song.  I found that in the offending song sequence it was activating the same light channel (a radio sign light) that was in my background animation.  Thus, my radio sign was acting weird and not staying on all the time.   Might be worth your time to check that out.

[bdwillie]

9 hours ago, Richard Hamilton said:

BdWillie,  when I read your first post a couple days ago, something sounded strangely familiar about it from a few years ago.   Now that I think about it, my memory got better.  This may not be your problem, but it was in my case where everything worked well except one song.  I found that in the offending song sequence it was activating the same light channel (a radio sign light) that was in my background animation.  Thus, my radio sign was acting weird and not staying on all the time.   Might be worth your time to check that out.

Richard Believe me I have,  I ran into that several years ago myself.  The channels affected are not in the preview the musicals use at all.  quadruple checked that several times.  Also the drop out is random, never the same sequence, or time or pattern for that matter.  I thought I had it whipped by Copied and renamed the preview that the main musicals used.  Added the parking, tune to, and nativities in as a group.  loaded, each musical sequence, assigned the new preview, reset the displayed props and groups, added 100% on from beginning to end of each musical for the group and resaved.  Removed everything but the tree farm from the animation tab. saved show by another name.  uploaded all to the show computer in the shed. Did a complete run through yesterday with no drop outs!  Scheduled fixed show for opening night tonight, and within 10 minutes of start,  one channel of the nativity blinked, the west parking signs went out, and the tune to sign went out.  the west parking signs came back on after a few minutes, but the tune to sign never did.  Finally went and got an extension cord and plugged it into the wall.  Still the main show is perfect, just the 100 % on stuff is acting up, except one item.  As I type I am installing S5 on an old laptop and will haul it out to the shed tomorrow and see if it fixes it.  If so I will submit a trouble ticket and have all the sequences in question ready if LOR wants them.  I don't have any hair left to pull at this point.  I have been fighting this for two weeks.  The only change from last year is S5 to S6, and a different computer.  The animations were rock solid last year, and I didn't change them.