Keeping LOR boxes dry, an alternative...

[Guest guest]

Hey guys, I was worrying to myself about water damage to controllers while fliping through catalogs. Then it hit me. Silica gel packs! These packs are often found in shoe boxes and they suck the moisture out of the air. The can be VERY powerful. Even so they should not be put even close to wood as it will dry it out and it will start cracking.

Here is the ad from a nearby store:



I am thinking about putting these in all of my LOR baxes. Package B is for up to 3 cubic feet, I think it would work well. My concearns are the facts that they might dry componants with lets say acid in them. Are there any componants that may be effected by an EXTREMELY dry environment?

Also these are reuseable, just bake them in the oven!

To me the 7$ is nothing. What do you guys think?

If it is a good idea, I will buy a case and sell them for cheaper prices at my Mini PLUS.

What do you guys think?

Any other problems you can see?

Zac

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a neat idea and it would work for all of those pesky strobes I keep hearing about! I did a goodle search on it and found this info

"Little packets of silica gel are found in all sorts of products because silica gel is a desiccant -- it adsorbs and holds water vapor. In leather products and foods like pepperoni, the lack of moisture can limit the growth of mold and reduce spoilage. In electronics it prevents condensation, which might damage the electronics. If a bottle of vitamins contained any moisture vapor and were cooled rapidly, the condensing moisture would ruin the pills. You will find little silica gel packets in anything that would be affected by excess moisture or condensation.
Silica gel is nearly harmless, which is why you find it in food products. Silica, or silicon dioxide (SiO2), is the same material found in quartz. The gel form contains millions of tiny pores that can adsorb and hold moisture. Silica gel is essentially porous sand.
Silica gel can adsorb about 40 percent of its weight in moisture and can take the relative humidity in a closed container down to about 40 percent. Once saturated, you can drive the moisture off and reuse silica gel by heating it above 300 degrees F (150 C)."
(from howstuffworks.com)

These below may be useful to get the stuff cheply.

http://www.jakesmp.net/CSD_Silica_Gel/CSD_Silica_005_M.html

http://www.jakesmp.net/CSD_Silica_Gel/CSD_Silica_004_M.html

Edit: Even more info!

"
[align=left]When you first use silica gel in the area to be protected, it may become saturated rather quickly as it "drinks up" residual moisture. Once the residual dampness is removed, you can maintain a dry condition with less frequent need to reactivate the silica gel.[/align] [align=left]Reactivation times below are minimums. Sometimes, when the silica gel becomes overly saturated, it's good practice to extend the reactivation period. However, do not vary from the recommended temperatures.[/align] [align=left]Silica Gel in Tyvek Packets: These small packets which range in size from 1/2 gram to 10 grams in size are generally thrown out after use as their replacement cost is so inexpensive compared to the time and effort to reactivate them. [/align] [align=left]If you do choose to reactivate them we suggest the following: Leave the Silica Gel crystals in the Tyvek Bag. Place the entire bag on a cooking sheet and place the sheet into a vented 240 degree F° oven for at least 3 hours. After drying out the bags place them into a sealed container with a Humidity Indicator Card that has one or more pink circles. When all circles return to the blue color, which may be several hours, you know that your Silica Gel is ready to go to work again protecting your valuables.[/align] [align=left]Aluminum Canister - 40 Gram Unit: When the blue silica gel beneath the inspection window turns pink, reactivate as follows: Place the unit in a vented 300 degree F oven for at least 3 hours. (Or until the silica gel turns blue again.)[/align] [align=left]1 Lb. Foil Pack- Remove the Silica Gel granules and the Humidity Indicator Card from the foil pack. Spread the Silica Gel granules on a cooking sheet and put the sheet into a vented 240 degree F oven for at least 3 hours. When the granules have cooled down return them and the Humidity Indicator Card back to the Foil Pack. Within several hours the circles on the Humidity Indicator Card will turn blue which means that your Silica Gel is ready to be used again. If you are not going to use the Silica Gel immediately be sure to store the pack in a good air tight container.[/align] [align=left]Corrugated Carton - 200, 450 and 900 Gram Units: Place the unit with the indicator card down, occasionally examining the card. When the center circle turns pink reactivate the unit as follows: Remove the bag of silica gel granules from the unit and place the bag in a vented 240 degree F oven for at least 3 hours. Replace the bag in the unit (it may take several hours for indicating circles to turn blue again.) Replacement Humidity Indicator Cards are also available.[/align] [align=left]Steel Canister - 750 Gram Unit: When the blue silica gel beneath the inspection window turns pink, reactivate as follows: Place the entire unit (do not disassemble) in a vented 325 degree F oven for at least 3 hours. (Silica gel will gradually turn blue again.) Instructions can be found on the base of the canister. [/align] [align=left]Our Silica Gel units can be reactivated indefinitely ... provides a lifetime of protection." from the website above
[/align]

[Guest guest]

Zac,

Do you have a problem with moisture in your boxes? I mean I live in an area where we get rain and I mean heavy rain a lot while the lights are up but have never had an issue. I know a lot of people worry about it but has anyone actually had an issue? It's a good idea but at $7.00 times 20 controllers you said you have? That's almost an additional card.

Jeff

[Guest guest]

Yeah but I think it will be worth it, last year my controller was ruined by condensation. These controllers may be used for business purposes aswell so I have to keep them working at all costs.

Zac

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure they would be effective unless your enclosures are sealed. Otherwise I think they would saturate pretty quickly.

Another idea might be to install a small heater in each enclosure to keep them dry. You could wire a power resistor (or even something like a c-7 lamp) to be always on.

-jim-

[Guest guest]

jstjohnz wrote:

I'm not sure they would be effective unless your enclosures are sealed. Otherwise I think they would saturate pretty quickly.

Another idea might be to install a small heater in each enclosure to keep them dry. You could wire a power resistor (or even something like a c-7 lamp) to be always on.

-jim-

That might work except for one thing. The boards generate enough heat already. A heater might melt the board or enclousure, or the board might not work.

[Guest guest]

The problem isn't when the unit is operating, it's when it's not operating and not generating any heat. A few watts of heat from a bulb or resistor wouldn't be significant compared to the heat from the triacs when it's running with a load.

[Guest guest]

I have seen a few cards that were damaged by water. From what I could see the water was not condensation but rather a real leak on the boards.

Of the two suggestions, (gel packs / 5 watt heater) I lean toward putting a couple of C7/C9 bulbs in the enclosure. I believe that the vast majority of people have had no issues with condensation but that the little heaters will do nothing but improve the situation and with long life bulbs they should be lower maintenance than the gel packs.

Keeping your cards CLEAN is also important... Why? well because pure water does not conduct electricity. Add a few contaminates and it does. The cards that I have seen that were damaged by water were also very dirty. I think it takes a combination of the two to really wack the card. (although water alone is not a good thing)

People have reported cards that were actually submerged in water, dried off and they went on their merry way.

[Guest guest]

I guess fools (and drunks) have all the luck because last season I had no issues at all with water (we had rain, snow, rain, snow). I used (horror) white kitchen garbage bags over the controllers and left the bottom of the bags open (the controllers were either mounted on a wall or to wooden supports which kept them off the ground). Any rain or melting snow just slid right off but by leaving the bags open, there was plenty of air flow. I realize its a very unsophisticated method but it looked fine (white bags--snow) and the controllers stayed perfectly clean and dry with no condensation.

[Guest guest]

Carrie,

That of course is the KISS method! Keep It Simple, Stupid! It worked and it camoflaged the boxes in addition!

Jeff

[Guest guest]

I used Walmart bags over my DLS boxes when I used them. My boxes are mostly in righttime boxes but a few are just in $2 plastic boxes. I do not even mount them off the ground. I lean them at an angle against the house.

[Guest guest]

I accidently left a LOR 16channel board, mounted in a meci plastic enclosure, out in a thunderstorm last year. The enclosure was completely open, so it filled completely up with water, and covered the board for about 8 hours, until I got home from work. I took it inside, and dried it out. The next night, I was able to use it, with no problems.

With that being said, I prefer my "ugly boxes" over my plastic enclosures, for various reasons. One of which is that the "ugly boxes" are made out of wood, and their is no condensation. Also, they are completely open at the bottom for circulation. I have never had any of them get wet inside.

I have had condensation in my plastic boxes, which didn't seem to hurt anything. This year, I bought some spray on conformal coating for the boards. I haven't contacted Dan yet for his opinion, but I'm thinking about using it just for added safety. It should keep the boards clean, plus protect them from moisture.

Just some food for thought.

[Guest guest]

Bill Hoffman wrote:

[snip] This year, I bought some spray on conformal coating for the boards. I haven't contacted Dan yet for his opinion, but I'm thinking about using it just for added safety. It should keep the boards clean, plus protect them from moisture.

I think that the conformal coating is a good idea! have something in the comm connectors when you spray so you do not coat them.

[Guest guest]

DAN,

Is there any particular brand name or solvent base that you use with your conformal coating? Acrlyic..silicone etc?

[Guest guest]

>>>>I think that the conformal coating is a good idea! have something in the comm connectors when you spray so you do not coat them.<<<<<

Thanks, Dan

I never thought of that. I guess that is why you make the "big" bucks.

[Guest guest]

If you go to the Lights Lights forum look for stobes we coverd it throughly. There were many suggestions that worked but one that stands out. Krylon actually makes a clear spray for circuit boards. Even shows the application on their web site.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Robin. I went to that thread, not sure how I missed it before, and it is well worth reading. Except for the wax possibility, sounds like Krylon or regular conformal coatings are the way to go.

[Guest guest]

Zac_Cutt wrote:

I am thinking about putting these in all of my LOR baxes. Package B is for up to 3 cubic feet, I think it would work well. My concearns are the facts that they might dry componants with lets say acid in them. Are there any componants that may be effected by an EXTREMELY dry environment?

What do you guys think?

Any other problems you can see?

Very very very VERY BAD idea!!!!!!! If you look at the little packs of these that are in shoes and other things you will notice that they say "DO NOT EAT". The reason is that it is VERY POISONIOUS and potentially FATAL. If a child or someone's pet happens to ingest any of the silica gel they would get very sick and possibly die. Silica gel causes serious liver problems! You would be liable!

I say this from experience. My cat once ate a packet of silica gel. She got extremely sick. For a week I took her to the vet every day. (I would take her in the morning and pick her up in the evening so that she did not have to spend the night.) She had to have fluids intraveniously since she could not eat or drink. I did not know if she would survive. After a week she finally started drinking a little water. She did recover. It took a long time for her to gain back the weight she had lost.

Please do not use any silica gel outside. Use Dan's suggestion of using a C7/C9 bulb or 2 in your enclosure. When you buy shoes or other products that have the little packets in them be careful about how you dispose of them. Put them inside a jar with the lid on (good use for those empty vitamin bottles) or wrap them with a few layers of duct tape so that they can't be easily ingested.

TED

[Guest guest]

smarts53 wrote:

Silica gel is nearly harmless, which is why you find it in food products.

This is very VERY WRONG information. Silica gel is highly poisionous! When ingested it interferes with liver functions. IT CAN BE FATAL even in small amounts. It is in little packets labeled "DO NOT EAT" for a reason.

TED

[Guest guest]

TED wrote:

smarts53 wrote:

Silica gel is nearly harmless, which is why you find it in food products.

This is very VERY WRONG information. Silica gel is highly poisionous! When ingested it interferes with liver functions. IT CAN BE FATAL even in small amounts. It is in little packets labeled "DO NOT EAT" for a reason.

TED

Ted,

I read up on this a bit. Every poison center's web page that I check said that silica-gel is non-toxic. One center even has it as the number one myth: CLICK HERE

I don't know what is true and what is not but it sure sounds like you should not eat it regardless.