Mixing Synchronised and static displays

[JohnF]

Hi all,

Probably a bit of a strange question, but here goes..

For the last few years I have had a static light display with animals etc outside my home, which many people have enjoyed and passed on positive comments for.

This year I am venturing (slowly) in the world of animation using Light O Rama controllers and pixels.

I am planning on having sequenced 4 songs running on the hour a few times each evening, however when the light show is not running I would like to have my static display on, with the static display being turned off when the show starts (and back on at the end)

I am in the UK and all of the static lights are LEDs running from 2 13 amp plugs.

Does anyone know of anyway using the LOR software to turn off a normal plug at the start of a show and turn it back on at the end of a show?

Has anyone else done anything remotely similar?

Thanks

John

 

 

 

 

[Dennis Laff]

what you do is create an animation sequence in light o rama (no music )   that will turn your static lights on and off.

[JohnF]

Hi,

Thanks Dennis, just realised I probably didn't explain myself very clearly..

The animated lights are all running off 12v DC via a Lightorama DC board, the existing static lights all run from 240v mains :S

Am guessing to do the above would need an AC controller?

[k6ccc]

23 minutes ago, JohnF said:

The animated lights are all running off 12v DC via a Lightorama DC board, the existing static lights all run from 240v mains :S

Am guessing to do the above would need an AC controller?

Nope.  If you have an extra channel on the DC controller, have that control a relay that turns power on or off to the static lights.  No need to buy an extra controller for one channel.
 

[JohnF]

Ah, I get it thanks Jim - am now researching in to Relays and relay boards to control mains from 12v DC input, to make sure I do it safely as never used relays before..

Thanks again!

[k6ccc]

Pretty straight forward.  12V DC from a DC controller goes to the coil of the relay.  The contacts of the relay connect the 240V lights to the power source.  You do need to get a relay that has a 12V DC coil (very common) and the contacts are rated for 240V AC at or greater than the maximum current you will be switching.  Should not be a problem to find a relay with those specs.

 

[JohnF]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your help, if I ordered the 2 items here, does that look like it would work?

Thanks again!

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/round-base-10a-relay-socket-8-pin-jg54j

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/round-base-10a12v-dc-dpdt-relay-jg58n

From what I can see, it looks like I need both parts to join together and make the solution.

 

 

[k6ccc]

The socket for the relay makes connecting to it FAR easier.  Those should be fine as long as you are not exceeding 10 Amps max on the 240V load.  You said in the first post that you were plugged into two 13A plugs to power the static loads.  Are you plugged into two because of convenient locations, or because the load was enough that you needed to split  the load between two circuits?  If you used two plugs just because of convenient locations, and the total load is less than 10A, you could combine the two plugs ( using a plug strip for example) and connect the plug strip to the relay.  If your load is too high to use one relay, you could use two relays that are either controlled by the same DC card output, or use two DC controller channels to control the relays separately.

One more thing about using relays.  You will want to add a diode across the relay coil that under normal operation wont do anything, but when the relay un-keys, the coil will act as an inductor and can generate a high enough voltage kick to damage the mosfets in the controller card.  The diode shorts out that spike.

If you need me to draw a quick schematic of all this, I can.

 

[JohnF]

Hi,

I am pretty sure the total load was less than 10A, but I have the details of all of the items that were plugged in last year and the respective loads in a book (but will have to find it), every item plugged in was an LED (mostly kontsmide animals and icicles) but i used the 2 13 amp sockets for convenience of wiring.

I really don't understand your last paragraph sorry! and a schematic would very much help!!

Thanks

John

 

 

 

 

 

[k6ccc]

OK, I'm not an artist, but this should help

Power comes in on the plug at the top left, and goes out to the static display loads at the bottom right.  The snubber diode is the thing to the left of the relay coil.  does not need to be anything fancy.  Something like a 1N4004 should be fine.  The banded end of the diode is connected to the controller + connection.

 

[Santas Helper]

Makes perfect sense Jim. Thanks for the visual aid.

[JohnF]

Got it, makes sense now  Thank you ever so much for your help with this one!

[ClarkGriswold69]

John:

Once you have the relay issue figured out, you can hook up your static lights to an unused channel...or more depending on whether they can all fit on one channel.  You can then use the LOR Show and Schedule editor IF you are running your show through the computer to control .  If you are using Show Time Director you will not be able to switch between the two unless you are using a timer for the static lights.  Even then it would be very difficult to time it just right to ensure everything meshes together.  I am doing what you are talking about.  I am meshing my light show with static lights.  In that, I have a big house.  The front of my house which faces the road will have the light show.  When the show is over there will be a few seconds of darkness before the entire house and yard light up. The lights will then go dark before the next show starts.  Takes a bit of planning but it can be done.  A good tutorial to watch on how to do this is from John Storms.  You can visit his website at https://sites.google.com/site/listentoourlights/.  Good luck and mind the gap!

[k6ccc]

Clark, why would you not be able to have an animation sequence that turns on the static lights when controlling with a director?

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

[Orville]

Used to run a show from an MP3 Director, it can be done, and it's a P.I.T.A. too!   If he is setting the time for his animated musical show to run every half-hour, say it runs from 6pm-6:30pm, just set the animation only{Static lights} to run from 6:30pm-7:00pm, then at 7:00pm set the director to play the musical show over again.   If using a director, you are limited to 9 shows in total only.   But that's usually enough to run a nightly animated musical show and animated {Static} show 4 times a night.    

Using a computer makes this much easier to do, but you still need to set times for when each show needs to start, and with both, you need to know EXACTLY how long your musical show runs to set the start time of the animation {Static} sequence.

 If using a Director the HWU{Hardware Utility} will become your best friend to control time factors, it has more flexibility than the SSB{Simple Show Builder} as you can set times to the minute in the HWU, you can't do that in the SSB!

[k6ccc]

Why not just run a show that consists of the desired musical sequences once through, followed by a static animation that is the needed length to fill out the hour (or half hour, or whatever time interval is desired).  At the end of the hour (or other interval), the show will have completed all the sequences, so it starts over.  Since it's very easy to adjust the length of a static only animation sequence, it should be easy to get the timing close enough.

With that said, I agree that using a computer and the Show Editor makes it REAL easy, and far more flexible.  I do (and always have) used a computer for running my show (both year round landscaping and Christmas).

 

[Orville]

1 hour ago, k6ccc said:

Why not just run a show that consists of the desired musical sequences once through, followed by a static animation that is the needed length to fill out the hour (or half hour, or whatever time interval is desired).  At the end of the hour (or other interval), the show will have completed all the sequences, so it starts over.  Since it's very easy to adjust the length of a static only animation sequence, it should be easy to get the timing close enough.

With that said, I agree that using a computer and the Show Editor makes it REAL easy, and far more flexible.  I do (and always have) used a computer for running my show (both year round landscaping and Christmas).

 

Got to agree with Jim.   Sometimes the obvious eludes us.  

That's what I did with my MP3 Director when I used one{thanks for the reminder Jim}.  I completely forgot that's how I did it after I learned how to do it!

The musical sequences ran first, then after the last musical sequence, animation{static} sequences were added to the same list of sequences, then they would run and it's easy enough to lengthen an animation sequence to just have the lights on and do nothing for the time you need it for.   Then you just need one show on a Director unit, but this does work very well using a computer to control the show too.

Like Jim, I run my controllers {CTB16PC's} year round to control landscape and other lighting in the yard and around my home as well.   As much as this stuff costs, I'm gonna get the most use out of them I can year round! 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Orville
Forgot to close one of the "{" with the ending "}". DOH!

[rcktpwrd]

I can't help with your exact question, but a little different thought on it. We have a mix of static and animated lights. We don't like when the deer and other lighted animals flash to the music, so we leave them on all the time, along with some inflatables, and have the rest of the lights blink and flash as desired.

[George Simmons]

9 hours ago, Orville said:

Sometimes the obvious eludes us.  

Sometimes?  Only sometimes?  You're being waaaay too modest, Orv ... 

1 hour ago, rcktpwrd said:

I can't help with your exact question, but a little different thought on it. We have a mix of static and animated lights. We don't like when the deer and other lighted animals flash to the music, so we leave them on all the time, along with some inflatables, and have the rest of the lights blink and flash as desired.

I think that sometimes when people have both static and animated displays going at the same it loses a certain cohesion, for lack of a better term.  At least in the way it looks on video.  Jumbled, disjointed, halting, uneven - I'm not sure the right word.  Some are fine.  Others, my eyes can't always focus on, or snap to, or pick out the synchronized elements from the static ones quickly/efficiently enough to recognize and/or appreciate the synchronization.  It almost seems like a disservice to both styles.  IMO, turning off the static while running the synchronized (and vice-versa) maximizes the impact of both rather than detracting from one another.

Edited September 15, 2016 by George Simmons

[JohnF]

Thanks everyone for all of your help and suggestions, I must admit I have not looked at the show editor yet, have been focussing on the individual sequences and the putting together roof the props and buying/testing all the hardware elements.

So if I understand correctly, I can use a 240v relay with a 12v coil making sure i fit a diode to prevent any surge back to controller to switch on/off all my static lights (subject to me checking out the total amp load is ok for the relay).

Once the is set up, i configure that as a channel, and in the show editor I will be able to select that channel to come on once the show finishes, and go off at the beginning of each show.

Is that correct?

Thanks

John