power question

[stewartmatte]

Need advice/guidance. I'm pretty sure I know the answer already, just seeing if another way to do what I need that I don't know about.

my house has a 200 amp service. My display this year is going to pull right at 117 amps. (I know I'll get alot of replies about switching to all LED, and I don't want to). Yes I understand it's alot of power running all incans. I am 99% sure, without "borrowing" neighbors power lol, that I'm going to have to get a 100 amp temp pole installed.

Any advice, other than "switch to led's"?

[stewartmatte]

Added info++ I know I should get a kill o watt meter to get exact draw but my calculations are from adding how many 100 ct strings @ .34 I have and same with other lengths. Ex. 200 strings @.34a each equals 68 amps

[plasmadrive]

I bet it would be cheaper to go to LEDs than have a pole installed and removed..

 

FYI, I have 9 trees along my driveway.  When I put about 2000 lights in each tree, I needed two 20 amp circuits to run them and when they flashed at one end, the other end would dim due to voltage drop.  I switched to LEDs, and because the trees grew, I added lights to the trees.. some had as many as 2500.  The total draw was about 6.6 amps.. Made a lot of difference..

[k6ccc]

You are likely fine without a temp feed from the utility or borrowing from your neighbors for several reasons.

 

Your 200 amp service is most likely 200 amps at 240V (or to word that differently, 200A on each 120V side of the service).  That means that you really have 400A of 120V power available.  If you have any 240V appliances (dryer, stove / oven, aid conditioning or heating for example), then you have a 240V service.  You electric bill will also tell you.  If you look at your main breaker panel, there will be a 200A breaker.  If it's 240V service, it will be a double breaker (most likely with a connector of one sort or another that forces you to turn off both sides at the same time.  Assuming this is the case, you should be fine.

 

Even if it really is only 120V at 200A, you are likely OK, unless you will be running a large load at the same time as your show.  For example if you have an electric stove and oven, you could end up running out of power if you are running every element on the stove, baking something in the oven, using the electric water heater, AND running every light in your show at 100%

 

Will you really have every light on at 100% intensity in the show (at least for very long)?  If not, your actual load will be less than the worst case maximum that you calculated.

 

And yes, a kill-O-watt is really helpful.

[Mega Arch]

With as much as you are planning, need to not just be concerned about the total,

but need to be concerned with balancing. Keep loads even on both halves of your panel.

This controller chart will help with your total load as well.

Take time to use it and then you know & don't guess.

When I say I have 15234 LED lights pulling 1481 watts (12 amps) - I can be sure of my math.

Rick has a pretty cool 50 channel calculator here:

http://www.quartzhillchristmas.com/12.html

(Actually - I got the C.L.A.P. bad =

15234 led lights + 12 led indicators on speakers & controllers = 15246 total lights.. LOL..)

[stewartmatte]

OK so I went out and looked at my meter to check the power reading. Yes you are correct, in theory I guess, that I have a 200 amp service and meter says 200 amp and 240v. So I got excited bc means technically I can run total 400 amps at 120. But, just to be for sure I called my electric company to make sure. Of coarse I got the girl who sounded as if she was still in high school, but asked what exactly my service water and she pulled my account up and said it was 200 amp 240 volts so just to be sure I asked her if that mint that I could run 400 amps at 120 she said she didn't know and would have to ask somebody when she got back on the phone she said no sir that means you have a max of 200 amps so I said correct but that's at 240 so if I rented at 120 I can multiply the amperage by 2 to give me 400 she said no the guy I asked said you had a 200 amp service max. So I'm lost. I see 2 huge power wires,a neutral and ground going into meter. So with 2 big power wires it makes me think there's 2 "legs" (if I said the term properly) of 120 each. Right??

Then I added up my cb and there is 700 combined amps with the breakers, yes I know I can't pull 700 amps, but really wanna know I can get 400. Any help please

[Mega Arch]

You really need to call an electrician and get some advice. You are really confused. You can't size your panel up by counting amperages listed on the handles. A demand load calculation by circuit needs to be done. Example - 200 amp 240volt single phase is in theory 200 amps on each leg. However, a 240 volt cook stove will have a 40 or 50 amp 240 volt breaker. You must count that on both legs. But it's not the full 50 amps that you count. And your city codes may differ from whichever one of us you're listening to is used to using to answer with.

Or forget all this and go LED.

1/10th the power needed and they bounce when you drop them from your ladder.

[stewartmatte]

I do have an understanding about wiring/power. I'm not confused about counting amperage. I know how 240 appliances are wired and know I can't count the cb stamped amps and think I have that many. I know I don't have that much. Just want to know for sure what's running into house

[Mega Arch]

Oh yeah. In your other thread you said (7) 16pc controllers. That's not enough power for the 117 amps you claim to need. Unless you split each controller into 2 separate circuits to feed them. So you will need 14 separate 20 amp circuits.

So my answer is yes , you will need a power pole or since in your garage already, just set a panel next to the controllers.

You said $350 was high for that cable. You are fixing to spend a small fortune on extension cords to get the power to your props. The enclosures are weatherproof so you can put them outside near the props.

Good luck

Edited May 8, 2015 by Mega Arch

[HVACR]

They do make a band that you put around you electric meter. It lets your computer record you energy usage. This would let you see peak demand or the MAX amp draw for a given month or time period. I don't think they are to expensive. This would let you know what your home's demand is and how much you have to spare. Search for this on E-Bay: "Real time Wireless Energy Monitor for Electricity/Carbon power meter one sensor" 

[stewartmatte]

To mega arch, yes I know I have to split controllers, have 30 amp boards so that parts OK, and yes I know I need a bunch of circuits lol I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I've saved enough to do what I need to for my show. I just meant I didn't think that wire was so expensive when can get double the length in spt1 for half that price. I plan on running wiring to a circuit panel ima build, yes expensive, but will be nice and neat. Thanks for the response and need alot of luck lol I'll post pics once all is complete.

[stewartmatte]

To mega arch, yes I know I have to split controllers, have 30 amp boards so that parts OK, and yes I know I need a bunch of circuits lol I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but I've saved enough to do what I need to for my show. I just meant I didn't think that wire was so expensive when can get double the length in spt1 for half that price. I plan on running wiring to a circuit panel ima build, yes expensive, but will be nice and neat. Thanks for the response and need alot of luck lol I'll post pics once all is complete.

[Tony Shepherd]

I came across this "Behind the Scenes" film which is great. I love the fact his whole display is incandescence.  He has a section of his film devoted to power management.  You might find it useful. 

 

[Mega Arch]

OK so I went out and looked at my meter to check the power reading. Yes you are correct, in theory I guess, that I have a 200 amp service and meter says 200 amp and 240v. So I got excited bc means technically I can run total 400 amps at 120. But, just to be for sure I called my electric company to make sure. Of coarse I got the girl who sounded as if she was still in high school, but asked what exactly my service water and she pulled my account up and said it was 200 amp 240 volts so just to be sure I asked her if that mint that I could run 400 amps at 120 she said she didn't know and would have to ask somebody when she got back on the phone she said no sir that means you have a max of 200 amps so I said correct but that's at 240 so if I rented at 120 I can multiply the amperage by 2 to give me 400 she said no the guy I asked said you had a 200 amp service max. So I'm lost. I see 2 huge power wires,a neutral and ground going into meter. So with 2 big power wires it makes me think there's 2 "legs" (if I said the term properly) of 120 each. Right??

Then I added up my cb and there is 700 combined amps with the breakers, yes I know I can't pull 700 amps, but really wanna know I can get 400. Any help please

You are correct that power is proportional. But load calculations are different than available. Meaning the wire, metering, breakers, etc have been approved for 200amps. Not 400 amps. Electrons generate friction when moving. Friction generates heat. You pump more power down the pipes than they are designed for, gonna be some heat. Hopefully the breaker trips before the wire starts to melt, which causes homes to burn down. It says 200 amp service for a reason.

[Mega Arch]

For clarification:

Not saying you can't run your show.

Just saying you can't run 400 amps through your 200amp service.